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A Neo Lighting and Growing Environment Thread

Starting this thread from a sidetrip in another thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by LinhT (Post 594010)

Honestly, I don't know for sure, what the key is to get more blooms. I can just give you a detailed description of my growing conditions?

Through trying different things and varying different factors each year, I found this is what works best for me. This may end up being a long boring essay so I apologize ahead of time.

During the Winter rest period, they stay in my basement. Temps are up to high 60's F during the day and down to
as low as low 50's F during the night. I put them under some Kessel H150 LEDs last year, about 18 inches below the lights. I used a mixture of purple and magenta. They get dunked in RO water when the moss mound is so dry that it lifts out of the pot easily. About once a month I add a few drops of HB-101 to the water. Humidity n the room is around 50 to 60%. There is some natural light coming through a south window in the room. In their natural habitat, the light they receive is actually brighter in Winter than Summer but the hours of light are less. So the LED's go on at sunrise and off at sunset. I turn the fan on for the days that they get watered. As the daylight hours get longer and temps increase, they start to put out new roots. This is when I usually remound them and start fertilizing moderately with HB-101 about once a week and Biogold once a month. I never mix the HB-101 with Biogold and always make sure to use RO water with the ferts. As they start to bloom, the root tips close up a bit and I ease off on the fertilizer. Once the blooms fade, they start to have active root tips again and I begin the fert regimen again. They grow outside in a shade house open on both ends so there is always circulation. I use 70% aluminet shade cloth on the top part of the shade house. 30% on the eastern facing side and 70% on the western facing side. It seems the more light they get during the growing season and resting period, coupled with the coldest temps they can endure safely during the winter, the more buds and spikes they may have. I keep them outside until it's too cold for them to be out there safely (except for last year when I screwed up, of course). All in all, I'd say growing them outdoors had made a great difference due to the increased circulation, light and temps.
Thanks, Ginger! When I used to have mine on the windowsill, I had them close to the window and the windows were drafty. It got around 50's F at night right by the window. As long as your garage does not dip below 50 degrees F, I'd say they will be just fine. You can choose to wrap them up and put them in the garage but I find that if they get a good amount of light during the Winter rest, I get more blooms and spikes in the Summer. They should still bloom, even if the temps are not cold enough in the Winter. It just seems mine tend to have more flowers when it they get a cold, bright Winter rest.

Hope all this info is helpful!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DelawareJim (Post 594366)

Interesting about the LEDs Tracy. This past spring, I replaced all my aquarium lights with LEDs and I'm working on specs to replace all my grow lights. I'm providing more light and my electric bill has gone down!

I'm working with the owner of Build my LED on selecting the right fixture lengths and lens spread for best coverage right now. It's great, I tell him what the planned use is, footprint of the shelves, distance from plants to lights and he emails a recommendation with the spread pattern and spectral analysis. Based on his recommendation and my own research his 25% green enhanced light is the way to go. NASA has done some fascinating research on this for plants in long-term space exploration.
Green-Enhanced Growth Spectrum - Build My LED, LLC

Cheers.
Jim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayfar (Post 594390)

My lighting is kind of a mishmash right now. My table where the Neos live (and are pushing the other Vandas out) has a 200W 6500K CFL fixture hanging about 2' above it which is on about 14 hours most days. This is supplemented by one of the 13W LEDs from First Rays about 10" above the tops of the Neos, but only for about 8 hours daily. That light is in an Ikea Tertial fixture without the shade installed and for the other half of the day I have it swiveled around to provide supplemental lighting to an adjacent table of Phals. I also use another of the LED bulbs and Tertial fixture to light another table of Phals that previously only had spillover lighting from a large terrarium and, several feet away, off to one side, a southern window.

https://www.firstrays.com/cgi/cart/c...ghting&pid=700

TERTIAL Work lamp - IKEA

I do want to look into the LEDs that Jim just posted about. The customization options are a big plus. I did notice, though, that the linked study on green-enhanced spectrum compares results with cool-white fluorescents, as opposed to the 6500K CFLs that I use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LinhT (Post 594846)

This is quite interesting. I vaguely remember seeing your thread on this a little while back. I think someone was questioning the research on this and mentioned something about the benefits of adding LED's in the far red region.

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.

:bump:

So how do you light your Neo growing area?

I'm glad you started this thread, Jayfar.

I only have 3 neos, and they are hydrids to boot. A neostylis and 2 ascf. They are under a skylight in my living room with a peak of 2000 fc of light every day. The twinkle has spiked and bloomed successively in this spot but I have only had them a few months.

I also have a new t5 HO 4 ft 4 bulb system that I put my vandas under as well as some phals but further away. I desperately want to get a few true neos, but I am not sure how they would do under the lights?

And come winter, should my hybrids go under the lights? I am leaning towards yes.

I don't see the need for artificial lighting for these orchids. They are not demanding and don't require such intense light. I just give them indirect sunlight in my bedroom and they're doing perfectly fine as far as I can tell. LEDs and T5 (or other growing lights) easily add up in expenses. Been there, done that, with aquatic plants. Those guys actually NEEDED the light supplement. But neos? Nahhhhh...

Sunlight is free, use it! No reason to overcomplicate things, unless you live in a space with no windows/sunlight coming in.

I have t8's and t12s and t5s. The large vandas grow under the t5s and bloom roughly every month and a half. The phals are under the t5s and t8s. The neos are currently under a t12 that will likely not be used any more once mygrow area is re-done.

My house has a solarium on the west side and while that has been lovely to have, it is a nightmare for keeping conditions ripe for growing chids. This is why I choose to grow under lights and why I also grow in the basement.

Right about here is where I get jokes from my fellow Coloradans about "what exactly" do I grow in the basement... no, I don't grow weed... I grow something fairly relaxing though. lol

My solar can get extremely hot in the summer, even with the windows open or the shades closed. It's brutal... and in the winter, yeah, it can get pretty chilly. The only plants I grow in there are citrus, my bonsai succulent trees and hibiscus. The hibiscus don't like the cold but they're also BIG and they need the light only that room can provide.

Anyway, growing under lights and in the basement has been realy good to my plants. Now I need to move the plants to a room I built for them and be able to provide even better conditions for them.

t5s are awesome, btw.... love them.

I grow Neos under T5 lights with Catt level lighting. I adjust the hours of exposure with the winter and summer hours. This year, I tried longer winter hours and everything spiked earlier this year. I'm not sure if I'll do that again this winter though.

Sunlight may be free but during the winter months, I just don't have enough exposure.

Last winter, I just left everything in the bathroom and kept the light on. I'm probably going to have to set up something different this year (a lesson learned from the temp drops-even with the lights on).

I grow mine in a west window in my bedroom. The window has no screen or curtain. The room is cool in the winter, but I'm thinking of moving them for the winter for more light (oh no, won't be the first orchids I see when I get up!) to an east window that has a screen on it or a south window with a screen on it. Both rooms are cooler than the bedroom.

Any thoughts on this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rangiku (Post 596217)

I move mine to a south facing window in winter. I don't know if it's necessary - mine are also in a west facing window the rest of the year.

A southern window is what I'm figuring on for winter also. I want to set up a windowsill enclosure of some sort, with the window cracked open enough to suitably chill them, while at the same time trying to provide sufficient humidity. I read conflicting info on the need for humidity. The conventional wisdom for winter seems to be water seldom and very little, but keep humidity high. I've also read that these are tolerant of low humidity, but I'm not sure how well they'd fare when my RH sometimes drops to 20% and less in the winter.

So a southern window (second story so no sunburn from the snow) with no screen or sheer curtain will be okay?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rangiku (Post 596309)

So a southern window (second story so no sunburn from the snow) with no screen or sheer curtain will be okay?

I'm thinking a sheer curtain may be a good idea, at least for those of us in the north. The daylight is of shorter duration, but my understanding is that the noonday light coming in a window can be more intense in the winter due to the lower angle of the sun in the sky. Then again, possibly Neos are less vulnerable to sunburn than Phals? In their natural habitat they generally don't get much shade in the winter.

Someone please correct me if this is wrong.

Southern window has more exposure than northern (no direct sun in N. hemisphere). I don't think east/west matters much during the winter. If you are likely to be overcast, I wouldn't sweat it.

Mine winter in a mostly unobstructed south facing window (fence blocks some morning sun - but the sun shines on the window most of the day) with no sheer curtains ... they do get rather purplish but don't burn.

I have read that Neos grow in deciduous forests, so get a lot if sun in winter.

Now that we are on daylight savings time in Fort Wayne, Indiana, I have put my Neofinetia in my bathroom that stays fairly cool but has a sky light and a glass bricked, western facing window. I have 'sacrificed' the bathtub by putting in wooden planks across the tub and placed plastic shelving on top, stacking the Neofinetia on the shelves. Since this is in an alcove, I have placed an oscillating fan on a timer to circulate the air. To raise humidity I have also placed a cool mist humidifier in this alcove. I'm thinking this should be good enough--heck, I would live in this space if it were larger!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattWoelfsen (Post 625702)

Maybe just keeping a couple inches of water in the tub would provide sufficient humidity, perhaps with a fan blowing toward the water surface. Just a thought.

My thoughts exactly. I tried that a couple of days and it did not increase the relative humidity where the flowers are located. That is why I added a cool mist humidifier.

When they aren't outside, I grow my neos under 100watt Cfls in 10" dome reflectors. It's cheap, simple and very effective! Around 5" below the bulb I'm getting around 5,000 footcandles,. I don't know nobody else uses these!

Anyways, they grow about 18" below the bulb and off the the side a bit. They get about 3,000 FC.

I definitely think that most unvariegated neos have richer colored leaves if they aren't under super bright light so this is probably as much light as they'll get. As far as the variegated one's I may start increasing their light levels a bit to match what they got this summer. This summer they got almost full sun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayfar (Post 625705)

Maybe just keeping a couple inches of water in the tub would provide sufficient humidity, perhaps with a fan blowing toward the water surface. Just a thought.

On second thought, I might get a submersible fountain pump and get a water spout going into the air. The other reason I did not keep water in the tub was that the water started growing algae. But if the water was circulating....

Try a pond fogger with ultrasonic discs.
They're great at creating lots of humidity & you can scale your water source & number of discs per to your needs. If you can automate the water source, it's even easier. Otherwise, like me, you just have to watch the reservoir & add as needed. For my 5 gal bucket it's about once a day & I have it all on a timer.

Matt, you can put some Physan in your water and it won't grow algae. That's what I do in my humidity trays - 1 tsp/gallon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rangiku (Post 626455)

Matt, you can put some Physan in your water and it won't grow algae. That's what I do in my humidity trays - 1 tsp/gallon.

I did not know that! Thank you Adrienne. I will try that--cheaper than getting a fountain pump! I have Physan, so I'll will add that stuff to the bath tub water. Thank you!:bowing

A Neo Lighting and Growing Environment Thread

So far, my Neofinetia, and for that matter, all of my orchids, are maintaining healthy leaves and roots. While the weather outside is frightful--today, the outside temperature will be 24-26*F and into the teens overnight--inside, the average daylight temperature gets up as high as 72-74*F and at night around 63-64*F. Relative humidity stays around 50%. I have humidifiers running and fans oscillating but that humidity stays at 50%.

Do any of you spray your Neofinetia? I did that for the first time today. The moss was so crispy throughout the pot that some of the plants are popping out of their pots when I pick them up to examine. I am am watering about 7-8 days--just a quick shower in the tub, which I accomplished this past Saturday. This morning the plants were drier than my Glenglassaugh single malt scotch whiskey!

I grow them in an East window in NH and they bloom well for me. The window is floor-to-ceiling, which may help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattWoelfsen (Post 632750)

This morning the plants were drier than my Glenglassaugh single malt scotch whiskey!

Your impeccable taste in orchids is only exceeded by your taste in fine scotch. :bowing

As for humidity, my neo area averages a high of 50% and down to 30%. I am watering twice a week now. I dont spray them and they do just fine.

Would you believe that scotch was a birthday present, still unopened, but promised to be open for Christmas by the gift giver? I have tasted this brand but in a blend--its like drinking air with a nice smokey flavor.

You are watering twice a week? Being such a worrywort, I have been peaking at the roots of every plant and noticed they are a bright green just after watering but in a day or two the roots are completely white and their little pots are very light. Hmmmm...

To be honest, Matt, I am experimenting with this setup to accomplish a winter rest. A bit drier and colder but lots of light. We will see how many flowers I get next year. I only have a couple of neos in moss, and my neo hybrids are in s/h. So far everyone seems pretty happy.

I am not a huge drinker, but I do like a tasty single malt now and then. I must warn you, though, that with the cable out, a scotch in hand, and lots of neos for sale you might significantly increase your plant collection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joyorchid (Post 632758)

As for humidity, my neo area averages a high of 50% and down to 30%. I am watering twice a week now. I dont spray them and they do just fine.

I was alarmed to come home from work Monday morning to find my humidity fluctuating between 16 to 20%. With 2 smokers in the apartment, including myself, I always have to leave a window open at each end of the apt at least a little and a fan drawing fresh air thru the hall. As a result, if the humidity is low outside, my humidifier wasn't capable of increasing the humidity by much.

Fortunately, I finally ordered a recirculating humidifier (to add to the regular wick one I already had) and it arrived yesterday afternoon. In no time at all I was able to get the humidity into the mid 40%s. A recirculating humidifier is more effective by pumping the water up and releasing it on the top of the wick.

Lasko 1129 9 Gallon Humidifier - Amazon.com

I also have a large terrarium for some of my Phals, where I can easily maintain humidity at 60% and higher. And a 4 tier indoor greenhouse which is also high humidity.

A Neo Lighting and Growing Environment Thread

A week later, after daily misting, my Neofinetia still have dull leaves, very dry sphagnum, and plants loose in their pots. The last time I watered these plants completely was early October prior to moving them inside. As I reported last week, I started misting them, but that did not seem to raise their humidity appreciably. So I took every tray of plants--I have put them all in trays--easier to handle, and showered them with a lot of water.

I have been observing winter = less water guideline. The humidistat continues to show a decline in relative humidity. It got down to 40% before I took to giving them this good soaking.

Do you suppose that where they come from a good rain occurs in winter?

I water mine every week to a week and a half, depending on the moss. I don't soak them through, as I do in the spring/summer. I don't bother with misting in between.

These guys got a good soaking on Sunday, they were drier yesterday. This morning, they are now damp. Living in dry, forced air, central heat system makes for a very dry environment.

However, with my concern over these plants, and providing a higher relative humidity environment, I have very little electric static problems--a nice side benefit. It seems my living conditions have improved.

I know I am spending too much time and energy over these plants! But they are delightful and the prospect of raising them to blooming size is very motivating. So far, knock on wood, I have not lost any of these Neofinetia.

Matt-- I think you've already identified that you're doting over your plants and it won't help them much. Humidity is an elusive thing. It depends on temp, partial pressure and influenced by a ton of other factors. You can spend all day and night chasing the perfect conditions and you'll never achieve it. I say all this to make the point: just roll with it. When i leave for a week or so and my plants are on their own, I return to my plants doing just fine. I have to remind myself of this any time I feel like I need to do SOMETHING for my plants because they're not doing as well I had hoped and oh, this one seems a little dry, and look at this one, it needs a repot... no just let them ride.

I live north of 6500' mean sea level. Our relative humidity is on the dry side but not shockingly low (though we can see it drop to single digits depending on how to winds interact with our mountains). However, the actual water content of the air is decidedly low, no matter how you measure it. This is why I grow in an enclosure and have built a room just for this purpose. It's also why I have a self-built ultra sonic humidifier that is 40 gallons and capable of keeping the humidity way high, if I choose... but its on a humidistat to make sure it doesn't rain inside my house. I keep it low enough not to grow anything other than orchids, but high enough that it's very noticeable the moment you walk in to the room. i did this because I have an extreme I have to account for-- but most places do not have this issue. Winter is dry, that's just how it goes. And my guess is that regular (but a longer time between) waterings will do the trick for you.

BTW-- I do mist-- but my misting is HEAVY. It will soak the plants. I also grow in aquamat that holds little water. I find that consistency is key as it is with most things-- the plants will get individually watered as needed but do get misted heavily every 5 days (automatically.... I automate everything).

Something I would suggest is-- water when you get your own weather... if it rains at your house, rain on your plants... seems to work for some. I do not do this because we live in a high altitude desert.