lol wanna see a rootless wonder ? K take a look
 

ports of paradise "emerald isle" every root lost to rot and one sheath ... soaked it in green coconut water after cleaning it up and repotted in hydroton ... well well not a root but not even a pause spike emerges and buds start swelling ... In about 2 week I have these great blooms on a rootless division

WOW John -
Very nice blooms for a rootless plant! How fantastic - the plant rewarded you for taking it home and treating it nice! How cool!
Sometimes you get lucky - or have great skills you need to share!
Steve

So, there's still hope for me. I sometimes feel that catts. want to punish me for spending more time with other species than with them!

Sorry to pour cold water on this one - but do you think it might be a "last gasp" flower? I really hope it isn't, fingers crossed that it continues to grow and thrive.

Catts start growing from the previous seasons mature pbulb, grow all season with no roots of it's own usually and then flower or produce another bud. Then and usually only then does it produce roots of it's own. This pbulb flowered because it was gaining energy from the bbulbs and had started it's flower and would have normally produced a flower as long as it's cultural requirements were met. The pbulb did not need roots to produce a flower. And once it finishes flowering it may put out a growth bud and it you water the undersides of the leaves yyou may keep it going indefinately.

lol no its not a case of just no new roots yet ...as for bringing it home its a plant I have had 3 or 4 years I was slack last fall and did notrepot and caused major root problems for every orchid I have and this 50 or so.

Last gasp not a chance I soked every orchid in green coconut water and new roots abound now just a inch or so long but new leads started as well...
This is the result of soaking it on the coconut water a couple of times I think and it was just a new small sheath and continued growing as if it was not missing any roots.

as for how roots grow james you need to pay a bit more attention to that for it not a set it stone fact ,.some grow roots as the lead grows ,some hust after ,and some not untill the p-buld has matured ... I have some of each ... this is one that roots grow as they do but they had sat for months sulking this winter and nothing in the room was making good root growth .I really think the painting last fall caused some outgassing of something as the paint cured all winter


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Its a first bloom seedling by the way

I find it really cool that you grow your plants in coffee cans! (being a barista myself...!) I have thought about doing this... seems like a good shape and very sturdy plastic. How many drainage holes do you cut???

"as for how roots grow james you need to pay a bit more attention to that for it not a set it stone fact ,.some grow roots as the lead grows ,some hust after ,and some not untill the p-buld has matured ... I have some of each ..."

100% correct. Thanks for making that case because people keep getting it wrong. Take a gold star please.

Could you please elaborate on this green coconut water? What exactly is it, and where would I buy it? Is it as simple as getting a green coconut, drilling a hole or two in it and pouring out the water?

Congrats on your success John. I had this cultivar and killed it to root rot. It seemed more susceptible than most of my Catts. I can't seem to find a replacement of it either.

I too have various Catts that root at different times.

I haven't used green coconut water, but I have tried coconut milk and it resulted in many growths and roots being produced. It was a very sick plant and in the end I think there were too many growths to be supported but it was an interesting experiment. Is this just the water from a fresh brown coconut or is it a green unripe one?

Well I'll stand by my assertion that most growroots when they become mature having grown nearly every catt/laelia/saphro I could get my hands on grown through the years. And I said usually as yes there are some that start roots befoe becoming fully grown. And if you look you may see what you think are roots coming from the new lead are in fact roots coming from the mature pbulb at the base of the new lead. You may have some that are different and hybrids abound and may push roots sooner. That would be great as it would give that plant more time in season to store needed sugars. So gold stars all around.

I hope I'm not hijacking your thread John. But since we're discussing when pseudo bulbs produce roots, I thought I'd throw in these pics of my Laelia tenebrosa that very much goes against the theory of mature PB first, then bloom, then root. The last mature PB that bloomed last summer produced two new growths recently.

The first two photos are of the smallest new growth with it's leaf not fully emerged and I can't tell if it will give me a sheath or not. There is no question that the two new roots are coming from it and not the parent which is a good 3/4 to 1 inch behind the new growth. You can also see the old roots from the parent that grew last year and are going into the moss.

The last two photos are the other new growth that is larger, but only half as large as the previous growths. At the base you can see the roots have been there for a while and already buried themselves into the moss. this one too is far from the mother PB and these are not coming from the mother. It will be a while till blooming-I suspect mid summer as was the case last summer.

Green young coconuts not the brown you find in supermarkets ... you can buy the green coconut water online

Yes if you can get young green coconuts its as simple as drilling holes and pouring it out

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I have a few that wont even attempt a new root until the pb is very mature and sometimes even has sheaths .Then again some start new roots as soon as the new eye begins to swell and grow ... then some just after the first leaf starts emerging... depends on what they are and the crosses

just to illustrate the point here are a few pics all the same plant
 

One is a fully mature pb the same age as the pb in bloom which if I was to move the medium away is most likely producing new roots also... and you dont get much more mature than in bloom

the other is a pb still in growth and leaves are not fully developed and it is producing new roots again the same plant ... nothing is ever a sure thing with orchids I find.

As people say on the Ob what works for me may not work for you and you have to discover what works in your conditions for your self ... and I am a fairly decent grower but I dont follow the rules except for the most basic and I do what I have found works for me I ignore dry cool rest periods and I have orchids that Im told absolutely will not bloom without it do in fact bloom without it for me sometimes for several months in a row in fact ...

Never be afraid to try something new when conventional culture has failed to work

LOL and yes the coffee containers work great I do semi hydro in them and normal just hydroton .... just a few holes is all you need .

For s/h I do two holes a couple of inches up in the side .For normal culture four or five in the bottom do fine

and just to show you proof of the roots dont always do what you expect ... here is a bu lady making roots on a section a year old while making roots on the section that is normally roots along which is usually a section quite a ways below the pb and usually long after growth matured.

And a dendrobium producing roots from old canes as well,which you will be told does not happen.In fact it can and does ,not often but it does

Well actually a green coconut is what you would consider a fresh coconut, which produces fresh and clear coconut water which often is sweet but never consistent in taste. The brown coconut now is when it begins to dry. Inside a 'green' coconut, which i should also clarify can be green, yellow, or even slightly orange at times, there is jelly. Once the coconut starts to turn brown it as begun to dry and produces a hard inner shell and the jelly hardens. In most instances there is no water inside at this point; and it is from this hardened jelly that you get coconut milk by grating and adding water and squeezing it out. ;)
I'm sure this will clarify that whole green coconut/ripe coconut thing.
And i'm still shocked that you can soak orchids in coconut water!!! I have a lot of coconut trees!!! :bowing

actually to get green coconut water you use young green coconuts that have not got to the "jelly" stage and have nothing but the fluid inside which later turns to jelly then to the white "meat".Once they have got to the jelly stage they are past the stage at which the fluid is of much use for this since the jelly now has most of the cytokines and plant hormones that are responsible for stimulating roots and kikes trapped in it.As well as most of the food value it had until then.

Actually its quite a hit and miss subject as not all young coconuts have water in it, as well as not all coconuts with coconut water in it have produced jelly or even started. :biggrin: So i stick by my story. When the outer appearance has turned to an orange hue then you would be right. :)

Stand as you wish..........

Here is a list of unifoliate Cattleyas that root on immature growths before blooming:

maxima, labiata, mooreana, jenmanii, percivaliana, quadricolor, trianae, schroderae, lawrenceana, iricolor, mossiae, luteola, mendelii

Here is a list of bifoliate Cattleyas (and Guarianthes) that root on immature growths prior to blooming:

G. bowringiana
C. loddigesii
C. amethystoglossa
G. aurantiaca
C. intermedia
G. skinneri

Before you ask...yes I grow every one of these as well as most that root after blooming on mature growths, but you are welcome to get the Oct,Nov,Dec 2004 issue of Orchid Digest where William Rogerson does the list for you.

LOL ok ... I am simply going by what I gather on this subject by the info given bu the producers of the coconut water

Well hey, a lot of these producers don't even give you natural coconut water unfortunately, bc everyone that has grown up around coconut trees n picking and drinking the water knows that no 2 coconuts have water that taste the same, yet producers have consistent tasting water :).
I'm soo gonna try soaking in coconut water now; what exactly does it do again? :biggrin:

you really need to read up on it to get the full impact of what its capable of .It can induce roots ,keikis, new leads ... it has many different plant hormones and cytokines in it . I dont know which orchids they refer to but they also say a few react badly to it ...

It is used in many flasking mediums and has been used as a iv fluid substitute as well .

as for consistancy I would venture to say the same thing would apply to anything that is collected from wild type plants that are not actually under controlled farming
conditions and some quality control.

I would say that applies to any agricultural product save corn seed and see if you get a consistent product from planting a crop of open pollinated varieties together for several years and collecting the seed from them to replant the next year ... no fertilizer or irrigation as well ... I dont see you getting a consistent result there either. and I would bet the producers of coconuts for sale commercially do make some effort in these areas.I somehow dont think they just collect coconuts at random from wild groves.

Well you may have misunderstood me, you can get coconuts from the same grove same tree and the taste is not consistent. You would end up wasting much coconut water to find similarly sweet flavored water :) that's where chemistry comes into play. No matter I'll drink from the coconut itself anyday..I never buy canned. And when they bottle it its the fresh one out here in Jamaica, and it will spoil easily since its all natural, has to be put on fridge.

But this is so cool though! I am so gonna try it with the next set of orchids I repot! :biggrin:

AND I would do the same if I did not live where the weather is cold and below freezing 3 months out of the year ... and lol If I lived in Jamaica I would have orchids on every tree in the yard and try to avoid potting totaly

I do! And I have the yard landscaped with semi-terete & terete vandas, and broughtonias, epidendrums, dendrobiums, mokaras, also have a lot potted and hanging that can't take full sun...and a lot mounted too on trees...but I have a ton in greenhouse in pots soo yea, and I can easily bring inside to put on a table or windowsill. :)

Hmmm. Nice list. But... I have quadricolor, bowringiana, intermedia, luteola, amethystoglossa, and lodigessii along with hybrids of some of them and they are now putting on roots after growing to maturity. I think it's nice that yours put on roots earlier than mine. No I don't have maxima or aurantiaca nor do I have a skinneri at the moment but had four last year before selling them. Can't recall if they matured first but it doesn't matter. If yours grow roots before flowering that is great. I know what mine are like. You seem to enjoy arguing. That's great too. Enjoy to your hearts content. I just report how my plants grow and try to spend time here to impart as much knowlege, based upon my experience, to anyone who wants to read my offerings to these threads. You want to disagree, be my guest. I still stand by my experience regardless whether you like it or not.