a blue real phal
 

Not the colored crap ones although nice looking really bother me.
Scientists make world's 1st blue orchid
Genetic engineering use to create rare flower
OKINAWA, Japan (NBC/EBU) - Japanese scientists say they've created a rare blue orchid.
Researchers at Chiba University claim to have used genetic engineering to cultivate the world's first blue phalaenopsis aphrodite.
[IMG]http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/...psbc4298c2.jpg[/IMG]

Cool... Is it real?
I'm just making sure lol...

I doubt it. Where'd the blue come from? There are no genes for blue in P aphrodite.

I figured it would only be a bit of time till it happen so I assume it is real. I figure if it is, it will still take 3-4 years till they hit the market and they will not be cheep for at least 6-8.

---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 PM ----------

Playing with genetics it could have been spliced from other plant genes. Anything is possible these days if you have the money and time.

Is that photo of the flower?
Or just an example?

I THINK it is an example just by the blue in the stem which you see on the injected ones

Oh good because that colour does not appeal to me at all...
I was hoping for more of a gentian blue when we finally get there.

the genetic information for the colour doesn't need to come from pahl genes, could just as easily come from cornflowers or any other blue flower. It will be interesting to see once they release real pics what the colour is like on them. I recken I'd happily have a blue splash or mottled phal!

There might be a little bit of creative lighting for the photo but I can't see why it wouldn't be real. I haven't payed attention to GM blue flowers for a while but Suntory was making decent mauve carnations a decade ago as part of their blue rose project. I'd be disappointed if they couldn't produce a reasonable blue flower flower with GM by now.

I'm sorry but the picture doesn't look real to me at all.
It is black and white picture with enhanced blue hue to it. Or at least that's how it looks to me.

Plants like Kenneth Schubert look pretty nice to me.

It's real, Scientists make world's 1st blue orchid The blue genes come from Asiatic Dayflowers.

Interesting! I find it novel and intriguing. But I honestly hope it isn't breed able!!! Like expressed earlier, it's a short cut that makes breeding efforts irrelevant. I HATE everything died/unnatural and thsi being created in the lab would fall under that category in my book. I'm not even sure if I like colchicine treated plants. But at least colchicne doesn't give plants hue's that they wouldn't otherwise have, it just intensifies what they already have.

There is a good discussion over at Big Leaf! Big Leaf Orchid forum • View topic - Engineered Blue phalaenopsis

I personally see nothing wrong with intergenerics such an Vandopsis, Ascoenopsis, etc. But the difference is that those would be from natural pollen-on-flower productions. Not created in the lab. That's what make it distasteful to me.

Jellyfish genes.
 

They should make one that is phosphorescent (bioluminescent).

I have a rose that glows under a backlight.

I think the pic used some filter.

A GMO blue phal. Was bound to happen. Probably poison dart frog DNA sequence.

More reasons to stick to species.

The flower in the picture looks like it's related to P. philippinensis or P. aphrodite. Those are both large flowering white phalaenopsis. Breeders have never even come close to producing blue in those species. The solid color indicates to me that they've used dye or manipulated the photograph. They would naturally choose a white phal to do that. The closest that breeders have come to blue can be found in P. violacea and Doritaenopsis. But there's no true blue yet.

I think it's ugly, however it was created. Just my opinion....
And blue is my favorite color.

Read the link I posted. It's P. amabillis the blue genes come from Asiatic Dawflowers

http://www.hiltonpond.org/images/DayflowerAsiatic02.jpg

Now that is realy blue and the "blue" phals in the picture or in the article do not have real blue.

If I wanted a blue phal, I would just buy one of those blue diamond phal (colored with blue dye) which is fake but at least has realy blue.

I personally find blue phals creepy!

---------- Post added at 12:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 PM ----------

I would totally buy that one! :lol:

Didn't they already do this a few years ago with a Dendrobium?

There is someone on ebay who is selling seeds from rare blue orchids that he claims he grows on his farm in Tennessee. The photos he has show dyed Phals and dens. I sent a message to tell him that he is unethical and that these orchids are dyed and he sent one back to tell be that I should try growing some of his seeds before I throw stones.

People don't reed a entire post I have and that is exactly what thought had been done. I just could not find the entire wright up. But do you agree with the timeline I set forth'assuming they are viable seed'?

The gene transfer from a non-orchid blue flower is certainly possible, so I see no reason to doubt that.

The photo has obviously been altered, but the blue tones in the stems and all tissues of the flower is probably becasue the gene is expressed constantly in all tissues in the plant. Transferriing a gene is easy, transferring normal control of the gene to express only in certain floral tissues is not.

It can breed true only if the gene has been intergrated with DNA in the germ-line tissues of the plant. That is far from certain.

Yeah, by the time you see the flowers, he's probably far away! :rofl:

What a coocoo! :lol:

Assuming its something that is breed able, then yes I agree with the timing your mentioned. However I cry much hope that it is NOT breed able! That it has to be done in the lab, and that it will NEVER be able to be introduced into breeding lines! Why you ask? Because I feel like it shortcuts all the work we as breeders do, it's an unnatural way to attain that which we are passionate about creating by natural means. Without using a lab and splicing genes from plants that are not related.

I believe it is certainly possible to create blue orchids through genetics. I once bought some bright pink danio fish that glow under a black light and I found out that they have jellyfish D.N.A.
But it will be easier to believe the blue orchids once they have been on the market for a while.
The idiot on Ebay has seeds from the dyed ones. He just calls them rare orchids. I guess they are so rare that they have no name.

I must say I find it rather disturbing. The flowers just don't look right and the pelorics gross me out..to me this is man truly trying to play god...

Its one thing to use selective breeding to achieve desired results in colour,form, shape so on and so forth as many creatures do this themselves by natural means....But I prefer my orchids to be orchids.

Such a beautiful and diverse plethora of plants that are amongst the most extraordinary and unique in the plant kingdom a true miracle of evolution and adaptation and the best we can do is this!

No true orchid lover or nature lover of any kind is a part of this.....I think its shameful to see any living thing perverted in such a manner.....

Oh great now I sound like some sort of orchid activist....perhaps I shall just walk away from this one before I feel the need to fly to Japan and dispose of this monstrosity myself.

I'd give it at least 5 years to enter the cut flower market. I don't see it entering the pot plant market anytime soon if at all.

I mostly agree with Bob and James, it's W-R-O-N-G.

There a natural means to achieve things and the search is as important as the aim. This is one point.

Another is the GMO techniques as Bob hinted are rather crude, and positively they bomb DNA like you can bomb an ice cream with a full aircraft carrier. It makes a mess. All right, the resulting plant can live but its DNA and the gene expression is crippled for good and they don't control where the sequences are introduced and how. It means it can cut in two other sequences that are of importance like structural genes or defense systems. It's just like any GMO outside the laboratory (some are useful there, be it for research or drugs).

We don't know how it is crippled. And they induce something outside the genera into a botanic line. This is bad and a big misdirection of research. Right now, a lot of orchid species are in danger, some are even extinct, their habitats too are dwindling, this is where money research should go, not into creating oh-I-played-god-again-how-clever-am-I playthings.

Rainforests, primary forests, other natural landscapes are dwindling, orchid poaching is on the go, that's the issues, the real ones, not a b…y blue phal for mom at the supermarket.

(and this goes for all GMO crops/animals not confined to lab use too)

(In case you wonder, I'm :((

I would have told him that I would be happy to if he sent it to me for free.

---------- Post added at 07:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:51 AM ----------

This reminds me of what they do to Oranda Goldfish. I used to own one (then I learned about the GM). Basically they are GM to produce the appearance that they have. All the modifications create skeletal malformations in the mouth area. A lot of them can't even close their mouths or eat properly. This leads to a slow death from malnourishment. I have urged my pet store to stop carrying them (but haven't had much luck so far). These types of things truly disgust me.:((

Sorry if I am a bit off topic.

---------- Post added at 08:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 AM ----------

I agree!

We might end up bumping into each other over there. LOL

Becka, getting the seeds for free wouldn't accomplish anything other than costing the man the price of the seeds and shipping. Germinating them isn't as simple as putting them in the ground, as he implies.
We have attempted to put in a complaint with ebay but they make it difficult

I understand what you are saying.

This is supposed to be a thread about a possibility of creating blue phals, and it is turning into a GMO stuff.

People can have different opinions, but I personally do not see it wrong as someone earlier pointed out.

"Playing" around with currently available (although not perfect) technologies to make something we want is what people have done all the time.

Mixing different genera of orchids, for example, for the purpose of creating something we desire (say, colors, shapes, or temperature tolerance) is "right" because breeding is "natural" method? hmmm

Well, some of these genera that are "forced" by us to be mixed with, they do not ever see each other in the nature anyway. So how is that natural I wonder?

I only find issues with GM when results are clearly negative ( as in the example of gold fish that was mentioned by Becka, and many dogs people love are UNATURALLY bred to carry certain traits people desire and many suffer genetic diseases) or not proven to be safe, yet GM products are being pushed for the sake of selling them.

Now, protecting threatened natural habitats and so forth, I don't see how that is related to GM?
Totally different topics, which I support by the way.
I'm against people who go around and "collect" orchids or anything else in the nature, especially if those collected things are endangered of course.

I would say it's natural because it does not involve using a lab to introduce color or other things.

Then, that's only natural according to your own definition of the term "natural".
Different genera that will not meet each other in the wild is not natural no matter how you want to see it, at least to the general meaning of the word natural. Don't you think???

I do!

Plus, what's wrong with using lab??

Cultivated orchids are grown (well, germination and seedlings culture) at lab settings.

Are you against that also??

That is exactly right! :bowing It is MY own definition of natural! Everyone has different opinions, and that's perfectly fine. I'm just stating mine!


Nothing wrong with using a lab to sterilize things and grow them. What I don't like is when people use the lab to add things. Such as genetic material.

For people to create something they think is cool then great, good for them! I just hope, as I said above, that it's not something that will breed true or be able to be bred into different lines. Because that would artificially shortcut what we as breeders have been trying to do by conventional means, not by adding genes from dayflowers.

I see your point.

As breeders' viewpoint, you may not like this idea of gene mixing stuff, but as technology advances, you just can't fight against it.

Humans began breeding animals and crops whether intentionally or accidentally, for a long time, but with advanced science came more advanced methods. isn't it? like since Gregor Mendel accidentally discovered (or should I say he carefully observed and saw) and then mathmatically figured out how certain traits in peas are inherited and such.

I think this GM stuff is also part of our time. How far would it go? Well, that no one knows, but I don't think too far. Modern day science is great and it is getting better fast, but the gene stuff is so complicated and mixing them around is even worse.

We barely got human genome and genome of many other living things sequenced, but how to use them for whatever purpose some people have, we still have so many years before figuring out.

Like travelling through space to other galaxy, yeah, that would never happen even if we figure out a way to travel at the speed of light!!!

and I'm not a Christian. lol

Although I do agree with the fact that it is human nature to meddle as pointed out.

But there is a huge difference breeding something together that "IS" genetically compatible, and GM.
Both do have risks but the risks associated with selective breeding are a whole other story compared with what can happen by artificially modifying genes.

How long before a mistake and we create some kind of problematic genetic anomaly? Genes are not meant to be played with they are meant to choose their own path. Do you honestly think that no harm can come form forcing genes? Especially when we don't even fully understand how the sequence may work?

I am not as concerned with the fact that it was done with one orchid as I'm concerned that it is in the public's eye already. The problem is not that we want to understand and modify nature, its that it is based on money always. That orchid should have never been shown in public until it is fully tested for genetic anomalies. If It was breed into the hobbyist world it could possibly cause huge issues.

I still believe that we should never be crossing genes from unrelated things.....cows should be crossed with cows, dogs with dogs, and orchids with orchids....

I am half Anglo half Oriental my mother married a Japanese man because she loves the oriental genes..I have very little Oriental genes..perhaps her next child she will be able to chose which genes it may inherit. Or perhaps give it giraffe legs...who knows...lol

I don't grow any phals and very little in the onc group because of hybridizing. I do mini and pure plants no hybrids so a genetic thing will not be in my collection.

That's a little extreme, but to each his own. I'm not fond of genetic manipulation either.

I am just butting in with my opinion, but I think that this particular blue orchid pictured was created through manipulation alright, but I think it is computer- not DNA- generated - at least the coloring; sorry, but the photo does not look real to me. There is little to no other color showing in the pic except blue. With photoshop and such available at a very reasonable price, I look at most photos as most likely "touched up" to look however the marketer desires. The little amount of yellowish tone would be ease to 'paint' in as desired. If I were showing off a true blue phalae, the first of it's kind, I would provide a color scale (reds, yellows, greens) that would show that the hue was truly blue; even the background in the photo has a blue haze to it, so again, I am not convinced that this pic is representative of a new color palette in the phalae family.
Interesting to wait and see!
Steve:waving