Onc. Heaven scent - wrinkling, rotting spikes, the whole 9!
 

This is a follow-up to a previous thread (Onc. in wrong medium)

The condition of my onc. is declining and I just cant see what Im doing wrong. :tapfoot: I am new to Oncidiums but have done research and know basic care. (questions highlighted for ease, Pictures related to all problems attached :biggrin: )

A few days after the thread, I decided to temporarily repot my Onc. Heaven Scent from the soil-like peat (?) it was in, into loosely packed spag. The peat never dried in my home environment and previous PB wrinkling was getting worse (I assumed its because the roots never aired out).
I was surprised to extremely healthy roots and managed to repot it back into the same 2.5in container comfortably. I also made existing air-holes larger in the container. I am planning on eventually getting the plant into semi-hydro or at least bark.
Any thoughts on Onc's in semi-hydro vs bark?

Anyways, The condition of its PB's are continually worse. Wrinkling is on all bulbs, new an old; Plus, one seems to be rotting.How do I take care of this, just remove? I have also spotted browning on a spike and darkening on leaf edges. Is that possibly mold, virus, etc.? Is it all related to the rotting PB?

Flowers are slowly dropping (no big deal) and I was considering just cutting the spikes off. Would that relieve the plant a bit, possibly slow its demise until I get the care down right?


Any tips in general to nurse this thing back to health?
Thanks again guys & gals.

How dry is it when you are watering? How often are you watering? Also, increase air circulation. If you have enough air circulation and the media is drying some on its own, you can water an Oncidium like this quite often to where it rarely actually dries out. Many oncidiums don't mind staying moist all the time, they just need fresh air to the roots all the time, so sometimes that means watering already moist media. Some may find this doesn't work for them, but mine do best when I water often and allow them to dry rarely.

I have been watering about once a week, and its still rather wet when I water. There is a fan in the general area, but not pointed directly on the plant - there is still a breeze nonetheless since I see the flowers moving in the wind.
Humidity between 45 and 55% and room temp. is a constant 69F (cant control thermostat)

Im possibly under-watering?

That room air seems to be a little low for the daytime temp. You might want to see if you can get that up a little. Mine get to about 64F at night and almost 80F in the daytime and they are putting on new growth like crazy. The spag also looks very wet. I would try to dry it out pretty quick. Good luck. It is a very nice plant.

The terms "underwater" and "overwater" can be misleading because it depends on the plant, pot, media, light, air circulation, temperature, etc. I would pot it in something that dries more quickly in your conditions so that you can water more often and get more air to the roots. S/H might be a good option for you, although I don't have experience with that.

I cant control the room temp. Its automatically set to 70F in the winter and 78F in the summer. Would a seedling heat mat make a difference?

Oncidiums don't like to be kept wet. It's way too easy to kill them in peat or sphagnum. I've kept them in baskets with nothing else and watered them every day (early in the day - they don't like wet nights) and in bark watering once a week. They do well in S/H but again don't let their roots stay wet at night.
They need Lots of light.

Hey, I have that same plant in the same pot and media and all! I never took it out of its pot. just watered carefully when potting mix dries a little bit.
It grew two new pbs and both are pushing up spikes.
I do not repot unless they walk out of the pot. :lol:

I have no idea why your plant with seemingly good roots are on the decline.
You mentioned you water when the moss is still wet. I think one, you upset the plant by repotting it (when I repot oncidiums when they are not growing new shoots, they always sulk!) and two, you overwatered it apprently, you mentioned it yourself.

I actually think whatever media it originally comes in is pretty nice one. I try to imitate that by using peat or coir plus perlite. It is very moisture retentive and airy, which is perfect for oncidium.

As someone mentioned above, generally no orhids or plants unless if they are water plants, do not like to be wet all the time. Root rots occur, not just to orchids but all common houseplants, again, except for those that are supposed to be wet of course.
Oncidiums do best with constant moisture especially while growing otherwise, pb will wrinkle or growth won't reach to full&potential max, flowering won't be as great if any. This is different than being "wet" all the time.

Back to nursing your plant back to healthy state, well, I would move it to drier moss as the one it is in is too wet. pack lightly and wait.
Time will tell.

Cutting the spike at this point doesn't do anything. Leave it or cut it as you wish.

Oh, and the browing pb, I would cut it out before it spreads to other parts.

Did this start after you repot it??

Also, certain type of fungus can cause plant to dry up and die. just a possibility, not saying this is it.

wish the best for your plant!

The orchid is from NYC, so I wouldn't be surprised if our Onc's are by the same distributor.
The PB's were at a rapid decline before I even repotted it. Everyday, the wrinkles were noticeably deeper.
I had the orchid around 2 weeks in that medium when the wrinkling started and the media still was rather soaking wet even though I didn't water it since purchase. When I noticed the wrinkling was getting deep, I watered (mindless water-mode to 'save' it :blushing: ).
I moved it to the moss recently to try and keep it drier - it IS drier than the previous media but still holds lots of wetness.

I realize now it was probably not too smart.


Thanks for the wisdom. Youre the best, Orchidman! :bowing

Mature oncidium bulbs will wrinkle somewhat - this is normal. On my plants, only bulbs that are less than 1 yr old are wrinkle-free. I agree about cutting out the rotting bulb. Make sure you dust the cut with cinnamon

Oncidiums don't like to be "wet". Unless you have since repotted it in a very loose spag, from what I see, there is still a lot of 'soil' looking material on the inside of the rootball. This would be your problem unless you have gotten rid of it. What you think is wrong with your oncidium is just the natural aging of the spent pbulbs and not something wrong with the plant. Ok....oncidiums don't like to be repotted unless there is new growth with new roots. Period. You mess with them at the wrong stage of their growth and what you have happening to yours is what always happens. I would cut off the spikes. They are being supported by the pbulbs and that is why they are wrinkling. Here is how oncidiums grow. The matured pbulb puts out an inflorescent which flowers and then dies off. They rest awhile and then put out new growth. These new growths grow quite a bit and feed off the matured pbulbs before they start growing roots of their own. This is when you repot an oncidium. Unless you can provide a perfect environment for the plant, the pbulbs will start to wrinkle once it has either flowered or put out new growth. I would cut the flower spike, very carefully repot into a much drier media be that very loose spag, large bark with a thin layer of spag on top to help maintain an evenly damp (not wet) environment throughout the pot, or coconut husk media. And give the plant some good air circulation to help keep the moisture even. I would go so far as to wash out the remaining old media and then lay the roots in the pot and very carefully fill with your new media. If you don't want to try to repot it then the next best thing to do is to get some good air circulation around it. But from the picture of the bottom of the roots, this media will eventually kill the plant. Here are some pics of oncidium growth. The longer you keep the flower spikes the longer it will be before the plant puts on new growth. The new growth is all that matters right now. Pbulbs can wrinkle to the point where most folks think to throw the plant away. New growth can come from almost completely desicated pbulbs. Don't worry about the wrinkling. It is natural. In these pictures you notice how wrinkled some of the older pbulbs have gotten. All have since put on all sorts of new growth and flowered. Don't let wrinkled pbulbs distress you. The new growth which will come during spring when it gets warmer and there is more sunlight is what is important. Patience grasshopper. The most important thing you can do for your plant is to get it to dry fast and not let it stay too damp for very long. The old pbulbs aren't storing energy anymore for flowers. Once the new growth starts their sole purpose is the send energy to the new growth. You'll also notice how coarse the media is in some of the pots. People worry too much about keeping their plants 'watered'. Let them dry out just like they would in their natural environment. Also notice how old the new growth is before it puts out new roots. More than half-way to maturity.

Wrinkles are due to lack of water at one point or another, and it is not actually normal.
Some oncidium types will plump up their pb upon good watering, but many do not. So once you get wrinkles, you live with them. Once watering is corrected, wrinkles do not harm the plant, but it is not normal.
Certain intergenerics that are less heat tolerant will wrinkle up even with good watering as plants lose more water than they can take up. This is called heat stress.
Many oncidium types that are sold at stores or nurseries, I don't ever see any wrinkled pbs.
Most of mine are wrinkle free, even the oldest tiny pbs.
The ones with wrinkles (that I have) are the ones with root damage ( not enough water taken up) or heat stress (more cool growing types that I have hard time with).

By the way, have you felt your oncidium's roots? Are they firm or soft?
If soft, then they are gone bad even if they may look good.
I really have no clue as to how to save your plant at this point other than guessing that you are probably seeing the result of bad roots not being able to take up enough water.
You mentioned that the moss was wet when you bought. Then it has stayed that way (you watering the plant even when the moss was still wet...)
I can't think of anything else.

Lower temperature is not an issue unless it is really low like below 55 or 40. 69 during the day is perfectly fine. plus lower temp has nothing to do with wrinkles. too high temp can though.

Switching it to s/h is not a good idea at this point. Just like repotting, switching plants to s/h is best done when plants are pushing new shoots and roots. The likelihood of success is higher that way.

I believe the roots are fine - White and plump. Im attaching a picture of them durring the repotting. Its not the best picture (still has old potting crud on it) but I think it gives an idea.

Let me clarify the repotting/watering: The Onc was bought potted in the peat mix, straight off the delivery truck well-watered. I did not water it for about 2 weeks because the peat was retaining moisture extremely well. At the 2 week mark, I noticed light wrinkling of the largest bulb. The peat was still extremely moist so I waited another 2 or 3 days before I watered it. The medium was still rather wet, but I had no other idea why the PB's would start shriveling.

1 week after watering, the bulb continued to shrivel. This time, I assumed all the wrinkles were because of too much moisture. I repotted it to dry it out but Wrinkling became twice as bad. I went into panic mode and started drenching the thing like a fool.

Im rather unclear with my words sometimes, Im sorry.

Would you advise one last repotting into something more airy, or let it be in what its currently in, making sure it dries out well between watering?

No matter the watering schedule every oncidium I buy spends the first few in my home wrinkling their pseudobulbs.
New growth looks normal happy and healthy though so I can only assume going from the greenhouse to my home was hard on the old one... pampered things these orchids lol.

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Having grown oncids and their relatives for 20+ years in all types of environments, all I can say is that unless they have a very good environment, the pbulbs wrinkle especially after flowering. They need the correct temperatures along with very good watering practices. For anything less the pbuulbs wrinkle. All energies are put into first, flowering and then putting on new growths. Yes I have had some that stay wrinkle free for a few seasons but that was when I had a good greenhouse. Even the smallest backbulbs stayed plump. But as you can see from the pics, even here at the beach in 40-60% humidity nearly year round and temps normally in the 60-80*f range and constant attention to detail, the pbulbs wrinkled. When potted in a less airy media they started to decline after a few years. Your environment must be fairly even as you say yours never wrinkle. What type media do you use for your oncidium types? Temps and air movement? Pics would be great.

The wrinkling on your pbulbs is a non starter..I think you are looking for problems where there isn't any. I'd love to see pics of NYOrchidman's pbulbs too as I've never seen an onc without any shrivelling of a pbulb or 2. The rot that is on the pbulb is what I'd be more worried about. Also the mix that you previously had it in wasn't peat as we already pointed out to you on a previous post. Several other members have the same orchid and ours as many other oncs are potted in the same mix. If you keep unpotting the poor orchid it will die. Pot it up and leave it. Oncs don't like to be messed with alot, phals don't mind too much. The bark was completely fine. I live more north than you do and all my Oncs are in bark/perlite mix. Put a wooden skewer in mix and don't water again til almost dry. Maybe in florida you can get away with keeping oncs wet...not up here with our dark/short winter days. I'd say get that poor orchid out of that sphag...stays way to wet. Goodluck if you keep unpotting that orchid you will need it!


Cheryl

Thank you for the close-up picture, which helps a lot. The roots, as you say, do look fine. Also, I don't think I see any wrinkles on those pbs, at least not the ones shown in the picture. so I'm rather puzzled here. :scratchhead:

The description you gave also puzzles me. Media not being dry for over two weeks...then you watered it when the media was still rather wet.

Let me share with you what I do as far as watering in concerned with the oncidium intergenerics that come in green plastic pot with dark peat like mix.
Unless the pot feels very light or look ver dry, I wait until I see very slight wrinkles to appear on pbs. This usually means the mix has been dry and the plant is getting dehydrated (therefore it is using its own water reserve from its "water tank"). The pot feels quite light when this happens.
Then I take the pot to the kitchen sink and give good watering. I water again when I lift the pot and feel it is light again. This depends on the season and weather, but usually once or twice, even three times a week.

Wrinkles on pbs as mentioned by many, as long as it is not severe and your watering practice is decent, should not worry you too much.

Last, when you repot orchids (not just oncidiums) from moist mix to much more airy one, drying up usually follow, unless it is s/h or you do really really good job misting or keeping up with high humidity, which most people with jobs cannot do. so gradually change rather than extreme&sudden change is recommended.

The root picture only truly shows the bruised PB, and a baby PB. The wrinkled one can be seen in pictures 2 & 4 on the 1st thread post - Its the large one. The 2nd largest bulb is showing signs but its not as bad right now.

I realize my mistakes now and thank everyone for the help, patience, and all the tips.

As already mentioned in my previous post, some (usually the ones with damaged roots or ones that need "cooler" environment) tend to wrinkle easily at typical dry home environment, especially during hot season.
Some oncidiums plump back up once watering is corrected while some never recover (although this doesn't harm plants much as long as good watering is practiced).

Now, as much as I love oncidiums/intergenerics for their large sprays of colorful flowers and ease of growth, many of them have leaf spots issues (whether those are real issues or just physiological) and it bothers me so much that I no longer keep many oncidium types at all and I plan to chuck them all out eventually.

I do have three that I'm posting pictures of as requested by some. Pleast note that these have been with me for over one year, so it's not from a store yesterday. lol
The genera in the order of pictures posted, Odontocidium, Oncidium, Beallara. (I know some names may have changed, but I go by what the tag says for convenience)

As you can see, every single pbs even the oldest tiny back pbs are plump. Two of these are planted in fine grade coconut (almost like peat) with perlite and the other one (the first pic) is in fine grade bark covered with moss on top to prevent drying out too much.
The one in the first pic wrinkles a little bit in the summer when I forget to water, but upon watering it plumps up again. I like it when it does that!
I personally never use bark as potting mix for oncidium. It dries out too much for typical home culture in my opinion. This plant came in bark and I just haven't repotted it yet. I do not repot unless I absolutely have to. so I definitely agree with Cheryl saying not to mess with the plant. I just don't like to disturb plants too much and disturbed is exactly what you see when you mess with the roots unnecessarily.

My growing area is my apartment. I don't have any fancy measuring machine or device around, but it's quite dry and hot during the day. South facing, very bright.
I mist everything everyday, sometimes multiple times a day when possible, especially in the summer time.
I would say, humidity is around 40%-70% depending on the season. I do use humidifier in the winter because I suffer when indoor air gets too dry.
Temperature swings between 100-70 (that's day high and night low for summer) and 80-60 for the winter.

Again, a little wrinkle here and there do not harm the plants. They will still grow and flower. It is not normal though as it is an indication of dehydration.
I have never seen oncidium types at nurseries or stores with wrinkles on their pbs. That's because they were grown in nearly ideal conditions.

While my apartment is no where ideal, I am rather anal about watering my oncidiums (and other plants also) and take great care, hence, no wrinkles.
I did have wrinkles on "cooler" growing types and ones I tried in bark mix in the past.

Only my two mini oncidiums don't have any wrinkles. They plump right back up when watered...
Oh actually.... it's still fairly new but so far my smaller sharry baby wanna be has remained plump.. and plumps back up when watered...
My brassia looks like a raisin...

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NYOM what is the orchid you show planted in? Is the moss on top or is it all the way through the mix? The color is very good and your environment must be just right. The oncidium sphacelatum in my pic (the tall one) is a piece of one of my first orchids after I started collecting types other than cyms. I think I got that one about 15 years ago. It keeps pushing new growth every year. Usually two per pbulb which is why it is just a piece. What is the oncid you showed us? Do you have a good breeze around your orchids? I have found that to be very important in my beachside environment or they start to get rot. That is the main reason I pot in such a coarse media. Then I can water it much more often without any problems.

When severly dried, they do look like giant sized raisins. :rofl:

---------- Post added 02-05-2013 at 12:02 AM ---------- Previous post was 02-04-2013 at 11:52 PM ----------

I included names and types of mix in my last post, but long text I guess.

They are in peat like mix, which stays moist and great for oncidiums. I grow everything in a sunny apartment. no ocean breeze here. I wish. :biggrin:

As long as watering is done properly, I don't think "breeze" is needed really. Also, what many people do not consider is that without the breeze that we can actually feel, there already is enough air movement in any space we are in. The sun heats up the air, then the air gets circulated. or air comes in from door or window cracks and stuff.
I have never suffered fungal or rot issues other than one phal with crown rot (but came that way from a store) and many oncidiums with leaf spots (also came that way and which is why I do not want to grow oncidiums any more).

So while I don't think my setup ideal, things are doing quite well.

Other than spots, oncidiums are great, nice flowers, colors, usually very floriferous and grow like weed (like the one you mentioned). Once they hit certain size, they just go crazy and you have no option other than divide them and give away. :)

My brassia is the worst...
So much so I'm thinking of moving it to the room with my suspected virus plants... the new growth looks nice so far...

But my brassia is a raisin... And it's gross... considering getting one of the brassia looking NOIDS from TJ and calling it a day.


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