So Peeved @ the Australian Govn't!!!!!
 

Man!!!! I'm boiling right now! Thanks to the Australian government raising exportation fees to over $1,000 per shipment (not including phytosanitary papers and CITES documents), I am either gonna have a difficult time getting some flasks I had a lab produce out of there or I'm never gonna see my babies!

Thanks a million Australia for giving it to everybody, including your own citizens!!!!!!!!!!

I think the new policy is not just a money making venture but Australia wants to keep their indeginous plants within the confines of their territory. They think they have enough labs to preserve some of their dying species.

Bud, these seedlings are not native Aussie terrestrial orchids.

The seedlings are plants native to South Africa. They are rare summer rainfall Disas, not the typical evergreen species. I dare say that either very few private orchid collectors, or no private collectors in the US has these 2 species. If anyone has these 2 species and were selling them, they'd command a very high price tag!

Very sad to hear about this. The new fees are not related to orchids at all, but are charged for every business exporting anything (which basically guarantees that small businesses can't do exports anymore)

what Disa species did you have flasked? have you contacted the flasker to find out what they have to say about the new fees?

Do you know anyone in the forreign service assigned in Australia? Even a lowly clerk in the US embassy....as personal effects of any staff you can have your flasks in displomatic box directly mailed to you. They will not be taxed nor inspected. In fact it goes through the post office of the embassy and carried by US planes directly to your post office in LA and to your doorstep.

Odd timing for this post. I've just been swearing under my breath at the paper work APHIS makes you go through to send seed into the US!

I think Lambelkip is on the mark regarding the effect of these new fees on small businesses. There have been a couple of changes in AQIS that seem to be aimed at dissuading small importers/exporters from dealing with AQIS. Presumably, the government is trying to increase resources to AQIS, as per the Beale review recommendations, with minimal increase in the national budget. For large produce importers/exporters the additional AQIS charges are easily absorbed into their costs. For small businesses and individuals, who are more work per volume of product, the additional costs are prohibitively expensive, forcing them out of the import/export market and making AQIS operate more efficiently. Yes, it screws the small businesses over but they're not important enough in the scheme of things to outweigh the government looking good on paper.

Sounds like something you might be able to get the Aussie media interested in if you can get the right 'story'. Philip, do you think your flasker would be interested in contacting the media? Small buisness crushed by new charges, endangered baby orchids put in jeopardy... I think there might be a story there. They are not going to be much interested in your problem, since you aren't in Australia, but they might be interested in the fate of your flasks!

Unfortunately, I don't know anybody working in any embassy.

It is an interesting piece of information, though. It could prove useful sometime down the road. I just don't know how it'll fit into the scheme of things specifically, at the moment. Thank you.

I'm not sure if the flasker has any connections...

He has replied to my emails. However, he does not know the fine details of this mess. I really don't know the fine details of the new exportation regulations either, but here is the AQIS website for anyone interested:

Plants and Plant Products - Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry

Depending on what kinds of gambits I have going on that I'm not aware of, in terms of importing plants from Australia, I will try to see if there is a way to get one final order in from Les, indirectly...

In the meantime, I am determined to get the Disa seedlings. I don't have the patience to start over again! Seed viability in each packet is iffy and the approximate embryo count, percentage wise, can vary all over the place. Another problem that is frequently encountered in flasking Disas from seed is that the seeds can swell and stop in mid-development. Of course, they also take forever to germinate from seed, (winter/summer rainfall Disas currently take about 6 months to 1 year to germinate from seed). Then it takes another year for the protocorms to reach seedling stage, and another year for them to produce tuberoids. The total flasking process for these winter/summer rainfall Disas can be anywhere around 2 - 3 years before they can be deflasked safely. Seedling yield with winter/summer rainfall Disas are typically not that high at the moment, so if I get some coming in, I'm gonna try and give it my best effort to get them.

He might do something. I'm not sure. The flasker is internationally known. Both the flasker and Les are pissed at AQIS for pulling this nonsense.

I appreciate the offer of advice for making waves in the media, and I'm not trying to belittle it, but rather, I'm trying to think how the media moguls here in Hollywood think. I purposefully used Hollywood instead of LA. I want to propose the fact that the media is about "entertainment" - and one of the head honchos in the industry made a statement in an article that eludes to this. It is also as much about popularity as well. It could be easy to get laughed at or ridiculed by/through the media. I used to work in the entertainment industry as an actor, and I'm aware of their games. I don't think most people in general would give two pennies for anything orchid related in the media. It doesn't hit home as much as if the context was on a grander scale, with high to super high stakes, such as small businesses, overall, being hurt by such regulatory changes. This story is not sensational enough for the media, especially for the media industry here in Los Angeles, to make waves! It might work for a small country town, but even then that's iffy. Now, if big business was affected to the point where they get angry as well, then we have something! That's an entire economy down the toilet right there!!! I don't know how likely big businesses in Australia or the US is going to squawk though.


I know!

This was a new one that got implemented about a couple years ago, I think. It used to not be on the agenda.

What a pain. At least it isn't absolutely absurd. This whole seed thing is just partially absurd. :biggrin:

Sounds pretty scandalous. Unfortunately, it affects lots and lots of people negatively. This move could end up hurting the Australian economy in the long run, imo.

How frustrating! Seems crazy! How much, really, does it cost to inspect/test plants...going out of the country to make certain they are not native? While I do believe in fees to cover costs, this makes no sense. Wow! What about a book or magazine article? 'The Orchid Seedling Thief!'

King, from experience, I can tell you some of our Federal Govt. departments seem to specialize in employing 'little Hitlers' who are dangerously short on common sense.

Whilst I haven't had experience in trying to export orchids, I can tell you decisions seem to be made by persons who have no idea what they are talking about who seem to adopt the attitude of, "I'm not happy until you are unhappy".

I have no objections to protecting our borders against unwanted imports and stopping wholesale exploitation of native flora/fauna but mindless and difficult bureaucrats flexing their muscles just because they can really rile me.

Don't forget, every govt. employee has a supervisor.

Baz

wasn't there a notice period for the fee hike ?

we all value freedom of choice but it comes at a cost. You chose Australia instead of someone locally in the USA and unfortunately you have had to pay a price for that choice. Remember this is only my 2c worth !!!

I could give 10 other stories of how the USA charges exorbitant tourist visa $, only to reject the applications without good reason...

From what I understand, there was no sufficient notice for the fee hike. The lab contacted me and said that his only knowledge of the fee hike was through a fellow orchid hobbyist/business owner in Australia as recent as this past weekend.

I was not even aware of the fee hike myself until after someone on the OB pointed out the news to me that was posted on a different forum. And that was after I had put out a notice for a group order to obtain plants from Australia.

While I understand that what you're saying is your opinion, and while you have made it clear that they are your "two cents", I am not gonna be upset with the comment, but do allow me to explain...

I chose Australia because there was no one here in the US whom I felt was capable or competent of producing winter/summer rainfall Disa seedlings for me as a paying private individual. If you've searched for orchid seed sowing labs extensively before, you'll easily find that a great majority only deal with large scale orders for large scale agricultural businesses - not private individuals, hence why I highlighted the phrase "paying private individual". An increasingly small number of labs do cater to both the large scale industry consumer and the private hobbyist.

I have tried someone in the US, and while they did succeed with germinating the seeds of a tiny lot of 1 species of summer rainfall Disa to some degree, I had left specific instructions that were not heeded, and therefore, I was not completely satisfied. As a paying customer, I need to know or at least feel that I'm in good hands and be completely satisfied with the service provided, even if I had some difficulties in making the payment arrangements at first (I did eventually work my way to be able to pay the lab off completely for their services, but it was difficult with the pay that actors got at the time due to a "runaway industry").

If my own instructions bombed on me, I will shut up and eat it. But if my instructions are not heeded at all, how would I even know if they would bomb or not?! What if my instructions were the thing that would determine success from failure? I never got to know that at the time, because the lab didn't listen!

How mad would you be if you left detailed instructions to the lab, and the company didn't listen to you at all, only to provide the comment that they cannot provide specialized care for one individual's lot of plants just because the customer said so?! Would you blame me for feeling frustrated later, because I knew these plants needed specialized care, unlike those of epiphytical orchids or the care needed for evergreen Disas! From then on, it was clear to me that it was imperative to find labs that specialized in and had experience in sowing terrestrial orchid seeds with tuberoids, and could provide the care they needed.

The only other one I know who can sow winter/summer rainfall Disa seeds competently in the US, imo, is Dr. Warren Stoutamire, a professor of Akron University. He is not in the commercial business of sowing Disa seeds. I had contacted him years before I contacted the lab in Australia.

I contacted people whom I thought could do the job in Europe, and I got nothing.

That left 2 other locations, Australia and South Africa.

The lab in South Africa at the time was not answering my emails.

The one in Australia did. He had also specifically mentioned that he was 100% capable of, and has done so in the past, successfully germinated the seeds to one of the summer rainfall Disa species I provided seeds for.

What other choices were there?

Keep in mind, I was looking for labs that marketed themselves as Disa specialists who were willing to contract work for private individuals for relatively small lots here. This is not a shot in the dark and I'm not just randomly choosing whomever and whatever.

As you can see, this is not about me exercising my "freedom of choice", it's about getting the job done right!

Look, I'm not trying to be mean here, but the only way you'll understand this predicament even halfway close is if you have specifically dealt with winter rainfall/summer rainfall Disa seeds in the past. I have an article that somewhat details the process of sowing winter/summer rainfall Disa seeds, and it made my head spin. It is not like sowing Phals or Catts, where I would have tons of people to choose from here in the US. I have no reason to go outside the US for production of seedlings for stuff like Dens, Oncs, Catts, Phals, or even Bletilla unless I felt I needed to cut costs, which are already relatively low to begin with!

I have and am currently still contracting small lots of seeds to labs here in the US that I know can be done very competently within the country.

I hope after reading this, you get a taste of how I think in certain situations.

King_of_orchid_growing,
With the type of species you're talking about, it sounds like you need to seriously think about flasking your own orchids.

Does sound like it more-and-more, with these international trading laws falling in place one-by-one as time goes by.

I have thought about it more seriously in the recent months. It really is getting increasingly difficult to get anything internationally anymore.

I guess the Australian Government didn't see these repercussions and I am surprised at the fee for exporting flasks. I am sorry to hear of this happening to you and I can assure you that generally the government here works very well.

Baz,
I don't thiink the descriptor of 'little Hitlers' is in any way appropriate, it demeans the suffering of millions of people who lost their lives or lost family members. Take a chill pill.

This whole thread seems based on a massive misconception. Where is this supposed $1000 charge?

from Plant Exports Fees and Charges - Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry "Section 3 – Fee Exemptions

Consignments comprising less than 10kg do not require a notice of intention to export/export permit and therefore no export permit documentation fee applies. See Export Control (Prescribed Goods – General) Order 2005 Order 2.01 (g). If an importing country requires other export certification for the consignment, all fees described below apply."

So unless the flasks are weighing greater than 10 kilograms each the only fees that apply are the phytosanitary cert and the export cert, each of which cost $16.00 if issued electronically.

If the total consignment is less than 20kg, split it into 2 consignments... marginally extra cost but nowhere near $1000.

Yes, I just imported both live plants and flasks into Australia last month and I didn't pay this kind of expense. So I am not sure where the opinions are coming from.

I suspect they are coming from importers who have a vested interest in the plants. I have had some interesting discussions lately with importers who refuse to import for anyone but themselves.....I would suggest monopolising the market is a motive as well.

Harleymc,
You need to either register as an exporter or export through a registered exporter to be issued with a phytosanitary certificate. This seems to be where the increased export costs are coming from.

Going by Volume 7 of the Plant Exports Operation Manual:
Prescribed goods must be prepared and presented for inspection at an export registered establishment.
with prescribed goods including:
Other prescribed goods, for example: stockfeed, woodchips, seeds and any other grain, plants or plant products for which a phytosanitary certificate is required by an importing country.
The annual fee for registering a premise as an export registered establishment is currently $1800 when the government subsidy is applied.

Nice to see someone mention Dr. Warren Stoutamire. He belongs to the OS I attend and the stuff he has brought in from U of Akron is just amazing. He has retired now and is focusing on his own plant collection. :)
Good luck getting your orchids. How disappointing!