Phal schilleriana help
 

I picked up my first species phal, a Phal schilleriana 'Pink butterfly' at Carter and Holmes Open House on May 10th. But it doesn't seem to be transitioning to my home very well, and I'm not sure how I can help it.

Here's some pics. The one on the left was taken on the day I brought it home and the one on the right was taken today. It looks like it's going to loose a leaf and a few of the grow tips on the aerial roots have shriveled up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...is/phalsch.jpg

It's in a 2 1/2 in pot and in a medium I've never seen before (some type of peat/perlite mixture I think). I've been keeping it under my CFL light on a humidity tray (that has pebbles and spag). I've only watered it once (on the 15th) and I think the medium was totally dry (so maybe I needed to water it a little sooner). I should also mention though, that the leaf in question didn't look so bad on the 15th. It's changed color and shriveled pretty quickly. When I watered it, I had a drop of superthrive in the water, but didn't fertilize, since I don't know when it was fertilized last. My el-cheapo humidity meter says it's at about 60%.
All I can figure is that it's in some type of shock from being taken out of the greenhouse, but I'm not sure what I can do if anything.


And here is some eye candy from C&H, just cause... :biggrin:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...DSCI1645sm.jpg

Remove from pot and get a pot that is 1/2" larger and put the aerial roots in the pot.

Take it easy on the watering. New root tips will grow.

make sure when repotting to clean the roots of debris and old sphag ball at the center of the root system, that might be the culprit(some plants are wrapped in a tight ball of sphag as a seedling and as the plant grows big the sphag ball can cause root rot

Agree with the repot suggestion, or if possible, you can try and coax the aerials into the pot you already have. These also like a faster wet/dry cycle than other Phals, so consider that when watering and potting. I'd imagine the leaf loss and root tip stall is from the humidity and temp change between the conditions C&H and your house. If your conditions are good, it should acclimate just fine.

Thanks for the replies, but I'm a bit hesitant about re-potting. I don't want to add to it's shock if it is in shock from transitioning out of the greenhouse.
From what I know about C&H, they grow most of their phals in this peat mixture stuff, so I don't think there is any spag ball at the center that would be responsible, and I get the feeling that if it was still in their greenhouse it would be perfectly happy. In short, I am the problem...I just don't know how to be the solution.

zxyqu: why do the aerial roots need to be buried? I'm not understanding this.

They dont need to be buried really, but I generally do for a couple reasons. When I was a windowsill grower, I couldn't keep the himidity up high enough, so any aerials would generally shrivel up (since they are used to high humidity in most greenhouses). Burying them, or just the growing tip, often saved more than of these roots than leaving them as they were. This might be because of the increased humidity within the pot, but not sure entirely. Lastly, just shear aesthetics, especially when you've got some crazy long ones. I dont recommend repotting aerials into a phal potted in just sphag, as this has been very unsuccessful for me (prob. too much water around a root used to no water at all, less humidity).
With all this in mind, it's up to you, but unless you're overly concerned about something going on with the plant, maybe just sit back and watch it for a bit. Summer is a great time to watch orchids grow.

Melody, congrats on your new phal! You may need to make the changes suggested, not because there is something wrong with the grower's culture, but because your conditions will likely need different culture than theirs. And potting the aerial roots let's those roots be utilized by letting them absorb water from the media. I would repot it in something you would pot your other phals in, ie pot size and media, keeping in mind the earlier comment that schilleriana needs to dry a bit more quickly than other phals. My 2 cents. Good luck!

do not be scared to repot. I have repotted Phals even while in bloom...they are hardy and sturdy plants...it will not shock them to kingdomcom...but they will recover quite easily and help them adjust to your environment

Why not?

Why make it harder on yourself trying to properly maintain aerial roots that have the potential to shrivel up should the moisture levels not be adequate enough at any given point in time?

Why agonize over lost roots should they shrivel up if the environment they're in changes to their disliking?

Isn't the prospect of potential root damage/root loss the original concern of this post?

Why leave the aerial root exposed to potential harm from physical damage from accidental mishandling situations? Isn't this another potential problem?

Why increase your odds of potential problems? We all know how finicky Phals can be. I thought the goal in cultivation is to minimize potential problems in as controlled a setting as possible. Isn't the goal to grow good, healthy, strong plants that look as aesthetically pleasing as possible?

The real answer is - no, you don't need to put the aerial roots in the pot, just like you don't need to leave the aerial roots hanging out of the pot either. You can choose to do whatever you want to do. It's just a recommendation. You DO need to understand the consequences of your decisions though.

Given certain circumstances however, some choices ARE stronger than others. Depending on the context, some choices are about equal to each other too.

Btw, I forgot to answer the other question. The shriveled bottom leaf is an inconsequential issue. It's an old leaf, that is natural.

zxyqu: Thanks for the explanation. Haha...I'm probably always "overly concerned". I've had many a bad experience with my plants (not just orchids) so I do tend to freak out at any signs of trouble. I'm like an over protective parent. I check all my plants every day to assess how they are doing, partly because I just really like them, and partly because I know just enough to know that I am still very much a beginner and any one of them would be justified to decide to begin the dying process at any time. lol.
And especially since this is my first species phal, I really really want it to live, thrive, and eventually bloom. ...but I'd be content with just living and thriving. lol.

Gage and Bud: Thanks for your replies. I will consider repotting. I'm out of bark at the moment though, so in any case, I'd have to wait a week or so.

Philip: your post is phrased like my previous post was a stupid question...and maybe it is...But this is the beginner section, and I do still consider myself a beginner.
Actually my concern is loosing the plant. My other concern is that thriving thing. I have had several plants that do not die but aren't healthy, happy growing plants either.
I'm a beginner! I really don't know!! That's why I'm here to ask dumb questions. :biggrin:

They're not stupid questions if you are sincerely looking to find the answers to things you want to find out about for things you genuinely don't know about.

Now you know! And knowing is half the battle! ;)

Sometimes the Socratic Method works well. :biggrin:

Just wanted to say lucky you to live close enough to Carter and Holmes orchids to walk in there. My question is how did you possibly manage to walk out with just one orchid? Or are there others we don't know about?

Look at the pic of the C&H growing area. Notice the fairly even bright light. The temp was probably in the high 70's and the humidity was around 70% or more. And notice the tube up above. Lots of air movement. Now your growing area. Artificial light. 60% humidity? Probably not. Not at the plant at least. What has the temp been in your environment? And how much air movement has there been in your environment? All different enough that your orchid has not yet acclimated. Give it some time. That dieing leaf is just a symptom. The plant can't support it so sheds it. The other leaves look ok so far. The arial roots (the same roots as "in" the media, remember these are epiphytes)? Leave them alone. They are just stressed. the tips are the first things to stop growing when the plant is stressed. I'd not do anything to the plant right now. Just mist it as often as you can with distilled water (mimics rain water). Why? Because C&H used very pure RO water or even distilled water. Are those new roots I see poking out under the lower good leaf? They look good to me. If you feel the need to repot, I'd opt for some long fiber spagnum moss gently layed upon the arial roots of the plant potted in a net pot or open basket (to raise the humidity near the roots as high as it can get and not to keep the roots bathed in moisture). The roots don't need to be in contact with the media. They take in water and whatever moisture they get (mist) that lands on the roots. They don't like to be "wet". Just damp and then dry off. If they stay "wet" they drown. Orchids metabolize their water and nutrients very slowly like african violets and most medium and lower light level plants. Terrestrials like more water at their roots but not most orchids. You can see when the roots are ready for more water. The arial roots turn color (the velomen turns color from silver to green when wet). The pot weight is your best clue. The roots you need to watch are those in the media. In the C&H environment, the plants got watered once a week? Maybe every 5th day. Why could they water that much and we can't? Air flow. Lots of it. Look at the tube up in the rafters. Lots of air movement. So, leave your plant alone, mist the roots with distilled water as often as they change color, give them lots of air movement (a small fan works great), water lightly when the pot is light, take the plant out of the pot and inspect the roots. If starting to rot, leave out of the pot. Or put it back in a pot minus the media until new roots form. Remember that these are phals which grow on tree limbs in the wild with no media except the bark that they grow on and they do just right like that. We grow our orchids in media to keep the roots in a "moist", humid environment. That's all. That's why we can grow most orchids on a mount. That's the way they grow in nature. Species or hybrids. Try it

Melody, you are right in asking questions here that youm want answers to. Remember that we "all" are here to help but that we are not dear abby. By that I mean our verbage or delivery are how we write. Take it all with a grain of salt and take what you want or think can help. We all want the same thing. Thriving plants. But what works for one may not work for another. And it's just a plant. I rescue orchids. That's my thing. It kills me when I can't save one. But it's a plant albeit some are a little pricey. So take what you want from our opinions and experience and don't worry about the presentation. We love pictures. If you take it out of the pot (it won't hurt it a bit), take a picture of the roots. They tell an amazing story. I have a couple of phals that have little media. I have a couple phals that are in a fine media. I have one in a bag (not recommended). They all took time to acclimate to my environment. But the basics are the same and easy. Species or hybrid. Air movement (lots of it), a little good clean water (the plant will tell you how much), and lots of bright but very diffused light. The roots don't need to be kept wet. Please keep us fallible opinionated plant lovers informed. We love to help. Even if we disagree.

Very true.

Yes, that's true too. :biggrin:

I like using the word "similar" in this case... (being opinionated :p)

...

Specific methods do vary from grower to grower. Depending on the context of the information, specific information regarding practices in cultivation have the potential to be regarded as recommendations or guidelines. Mastering and understanding the basic needs of the plants in connection with the conditions of your growing area will usually dictate the techniques, not the other way around. This is why many pieces of advice will differ - (sometimes vastly). What growers are "disagreeing" with are the methods and techniques being used, not with the basic needs of the plant itself. If you ask any grower what the needs of the plants are, you will find a far more uniform answer all across the board - (this info will still not be carbon copies of each other, but much of what you will find will overlap).

Please review this as much as possible on your own time. This piece of advice, I think, will start to make more sense as you continue your journey.

Yeah. What he said ;)

My Phal schilleriana will put out these horizontal roots as yours is doing. It does this more than the Phal. violacea and Phal. luddemannia that I have.

Magicatt: Yes, I got one other orchid there (Phaph Infa red x paph hsinying web) which seems to be fine at the moment. I had a limited budget, but I am so thankful that I got to go at all and bring anything back. I wasn't able to attend any of the orchid shows in my area this year, so this open house kind of took their place. I arrived at C&H at 11 am. and stayed until after 5:00 (which is when they close). :blushing: I did take a break for lunch...lol.


Thanks for all the replies.
After reading over what everyone wrote and considering my own growing conditions, I put the plant out on the deck under a large maple tree for now. The temp outside is about 74, there is good air movement, and it shouldn't be to bright under the tree. I'll keep an eye on it and see how it does. The medium at the moment is really wet (as if I had just watered it today) so I am hoping it will dry out faster outside. Here's a close up pic of the medium taken today:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../Untitled2.jpg
It's really packed in there, and I'm not sure how I would even get the plant gently out of it's pot. :scratchhead: ...might have to dig it out? ...???

Anyways, being outside is only a temporary solution. If it likes it out there, it would only be for a month or two. At some point during the summer, the temps outside will get up to the high 90's/low 100's. ...unless I can come up with some type of home made swamp cooler for the little guy once those temps arrive.

If you think they are only similiar, then you think there are some slight differences. Care to elaborate? Anything else other than the quicker drying thing?

The reason why I said that growing Phal hybrids are similar to growing Phal species is because of the following:

Many Phal hybrids are bred to be more uniform in their tolerance of environmental variances. There is not much of a marked difference in growing one Phal hybrid versus another Phal hybrid.


Phal species are very diverse and have varying degrees of tolerances of environmental variances.

Some species have a wider tolerance for environmental variances, such as Phal schilleriana.

Some species have narrower tolerances for environmental variances, such as Phal bellina.

When you compare growing Phal schilleriana and Phal bellina, two of the largest disparities you'll see between growing these 2 different species is that Phal bellina will require you to provide more moisture and higher humidity. Phal bellina's range for tolerating low moisture levels and lower humidity is not as strong. You will have to be significantly more exacting with how you provide for its needs versus Phal schilleriana. Whereas with Phal schilleriana, you can afford to be more slack in your husbandry. These differences don't appear to be much when you read it, but there is a glaring difference when you actually grow the 2 species side-by-side.

If you'd actually like to experience the difference, maybe on your next purchase you can try growing either a Phal bellina or a Phal tetraspis. Note the differences between growing either one of these two species compared to your Phal schilleriana. I will pretty much guarantee you will notice the difference.

Should the difference between growing Phal schilleriana and Phal bellina or Phal tetraspis not be disparaging enough, try growing Phal javanica and compare that with Phal schilleriana.

Then there's the whole thing where some species of Phals can go fully deciduous while many Phal hybrids tend to not have that kind of a trait.

There are other things too, but this is just a short look into why I said "similar" versus "same" in regards to growing Phal species and Phal hybrids.


Note: Growing Phal schilleriana is actually much closer to growing many of the commonly grown Phal hybrids than growing Phal bellina is to growing many of the commonly grown Phal hybrids. However, I tend to be on the boat that in the case of growing Phal schilleriana versus growing a Phal hybrid, I think growing Phal schilleriana would prove to be much easier, imo.

Melody, Just to answer your question of how to get it out gently (should you choose to)... I just received a shipment of orchids from C&H which I immediately re potted to get a look at the roots. I found that if I squeezed the edges of the pot all around it loosened the medium up enough that I was able to extract my phals easily.