Orchiata
 

Has anyone heard of this product (Orchiata Pacific Wide - Orchiata) or used it? I was sent some information but don't know if it is worth the investment. I guess the bottom line is there are all kinds of "stuff" in which one could grow orchids. And if it is something that works for you, great... there is no replacement for good growing habits... not even some "flash in the pants" medium. Just wanted to find out other people's experience.

I have not tried it, but I have seen it sold online at a few places and have been tempted to try it and see if its worth all the advertising!
It sounds promising-

Just get a sample bag if you can and try it on a few plants your willing to get risky with and see if it works!

Being new to orchidmania, I would prolly be one to jump on this fast. It seems the orchid medium readily available just breaks down too quickly. Though that in itself could be a mixed blessing. It will make me repot more often.

Now, I've always been one to make my own potting materials for my bonsais, rare palms, and bamboos. So what if I made my own orchid potting material? I have coconut trees,,,hmmmm?? So I have been hoarding coconut husks. I also keep the immature coconuts that fall off. They seem to shrink down to almost a hard rock, and stop decaying any more. So now I have about 2 cubic feet of these "coco-rocks" and I'll soon see if they work.

But back to the Orchiata, just what makes one material superior to another? What about cypress bark? Or pond apple bark? Chunks of bamboo?

I really know so little, I hope someone can add to this thread to set me on the "right" path. lol

So what's in this stuff?

Pacific pine tree bark Pinus Radiata

Another overhyped medium.

Orchids can be grown in almost anything. It's just a matter of balancing the moisture-holding capacity, airiness, and the rest of your cultural conditions and watering habits/capabilities.

Anyone who tries to tell you his product does something "magical" - "The substrate other growers don’t want you to know about" sheesh...are you kidding me?! - either doesn't know what they're talking about, or is far more interested in sales than truthfulness.I'm not saying it's a bad product - for all I know it might be a really good bark for potting media - but come on!

The thoughts you express, Ray, are shared by myself. I feel very strongly that if you don't have good growing habits, it doesn't matter what's in the pot...and the cost for this stuff is outrageous! I want to do the best I can with growing my chids but at almost $50 (delivered)for a 1.5 cu ft bag... a bit too much for my budget!

I was quick to dislike the product from reading the thread, but there may be something to it.

One of my Hawaiian suppliers uses only New Zealand bark. After buying thousands of plants from them many of which were in the medium for several years I was always impressed by the quality of the bark.

US bark is horrible with only Segovia brand being even fairly good. On the larger sizes of bark (over 1 inch) I have to re-pot every 9 months.

I will have to ask them whether this is the brand they use or if there is competition at a better price..

Shipping from New Zealand will always make it expensive on the mainland.

For hobbyist even poor quality bark if shipped will cost you about $35-40 for this large a package. If you buy the small packages sold in places like Home Depot and Lowe's you are paying much more. 1 1/2 cubic feet is a large bag.

So this thread has me curious enough to look further. I will have to see what the truck load price can be.

Jerry, you let me know about the pricing 'cause I can always shoot straight down 75 and take The Ally across to the east coast rather than the TP..... I'll come for a visit 'cause I'd love to see your operation.

The thing that worries me is that Monterey Pine (Pinus radiata) is seriously threatened in the wild (it comes from California) and is known to carry fusarium blight spores. Like Ray says - it's mostly hype. Folks are constantly trying to corner the market on some magical stuff because they know we'll buy it :biggrin: While it's true that it grows very fast on certain soils and can even grow where few other species can (serpentine/magnesium rich soils for instance) it still would be suspect to me. Why do you believe it will be better and worth the added cost? :scratchhead:

Hey Ross, good to hear from you.... has it started to snow up there, yet..... :rofl::rofl::rofl:

It isn't that I was planning on a purchase. Just wanted to be educated. There are some things I'd be willing to try but not to pay that kind of money to re-invent the wheel! I'm sure you get my drift.

I don't think that Pinus radiata threatened status in native habitat is relevant when this product is coming from managed plantations in New Zealand. It is widely planted as a forestry tree where it is adapted. You can't assume fusarium contamination especially when it is grow in a non-native environment, and this is a highly processed product so even if it started out carrying spores of any kind they should be eliminated. I don't endorse the product, but why try to taint it by irrelevant or speculative arguements? I'm sure it is useful for someone.

I agree Ray.If you have learned the fact that orchids in general are hurt more by overwatering than anything else...then it dosent matter much what they are in if it dosent change ph to much.

I would never have thought of leca and s/h myself but its amazing Thanks.

I remember about 25-30 years ago, there was this "fantastic, new, easy-to-obtain" medium - ground cork. Uniform in size, it was nice and airy, held water for a long time, and appeared to be a real winner. Plants absolutely thrived in it, and it was cheap!

Then, about 6- to 9 months later, seemingly overnight, the entire potful of discrete chunks would turn to a dense mush and rot every root instantaneously. THAT was amazing. We've all seen media "going south" and corrected for it, but this was like flipping a switch!

i decided to try this medium in my paph collection.if fred clark at sunset valley orchids uses pinus radiata it is good enough for me

I have done some evaluation myself, and it appears to be a pretty good product (even if their website does seem a bit over-hyped at first).

I'm even going to look into carrying it!

Actually, I use it. The reason I got it was the orchids that came from Hawaii. They seemed very healthy in the stuff. It is actually aged Pinus radiata bark from New Zealand. They have forests of it planted for timber. The bark has dolomite lime added as well. So far, the results have been good. I'm mostly using it with Cattleyas in plastic pots, but some are in clay. Monterey Pine bark is supposed to last longer than Fir bark, presumably due to a higher lignin content. Greenhouse Specialists in Hawaii sells it in various grades, the largest being about 3/4 to 1 inch. They tell me they will soon have a distributor on the East coast (where I live), so it'll be much cheaper to ship than from Hawaii! If you want to try it on a few plants, Repotme.com and some other orchid supply places sell it.

Wow i didn't realise this stuff was rare outside of NZ/Aus. It's so common here we use big bags of it for mulch at about $5 per 40L. I've probably bought special 'orchid bark' in the past not realising i could just pot it up in mulch.

I wonder though what's the point of using it as was already mentioned, orchids grow well in anything so long as the air/water mix is OK?

Howard, it is truly an outstanding product. I use it for Phals. and Paphs. It is a 100% pine shell orchid substrate from NZ, lasts much longer than other medias which break down too rapidly. Expensive yes, but on the long run worth the money and less repottings! For Cattleyas, Dend. etc. I use and fare well with small coconut husk chips mixed with genuine charcoal.

Cheers, Michael

Orchiata isn't "just" bark. It is aged to allow the tanin content to become reduced, and calcium and magnesium compounds are added to stabilize the pH in the 5.5-6.5 range.

If anyone is interested, I just got some in:

#5 "Power" 9-12 mm (3/8"-1/2")
#5A "Power +" 12-18 mm (1/2"-3/4") and
#7 "Super" 18-25 mm (3/4"-1")

The #9 "Classic" 6-9 mm (1/4"-3/8") was inadvertently left off of the shipment, but should arrive shortly.

I have photos with a US Quarter as a size reference.

I hear from folks "down under" that the #5 or #5A, used 2:1 with equivalent-sized spongerock is a pretty good standard mix, but I'd definitely tune that to my conditions and watering habits.

A good chunk of Sunset Valley Orchids plants are in Orchiata. Fred has been selling it for quite some time. I just repotted an Encyclia alata that I got from him several years ago that shows zero signs of medium decomposition. Seems like it would be highly suitable for pot in a pot style repottings.

I know this thread is a few months old but I have been buying this type of bark for my orchids from repotme.com. I didn't realize that it was the same as the brand Orchiata and hadn't heard of Orchiata until after I had already been using it. I just have to say that I love this kind of bark and so do my orchids. I've been using if for about a year or two and I do not plan on repotting my orchids (mainly cattleya hybrids) that are in it until they need a new pot size because the bark is still holding up! Less time spent repotting is good in my book! I'll have to check out Ray's prices since his prices are always great!

Thanks for the input, Bec. I just ordered some from Ray a couple days ago and it's on it's way to me right now. His price on it is really good and as usual, shipping is much cheaper than other vendors.

Hello,they say that this New Zealand bark is steamed bark and that's why is so good and should last for 3 years:scratchhead:

Only 3 years? As Undergrounder said, Pinus radiata bark has been used for growing orchids in Australia and New Zealand for decades, although instead of using "calcium/magnesium buffering" we use a much less grandiose technique called "throw a handful of dolomite in the pot". ;) The typical graded, partially composted pine bark that is normally sold here (which Orchiata criticises) lasts for about 3 years. For the amount of effort they put into selling the wonders of their aging process, I would have thought they'd get more life out of their product.

Does the bark that is currently available in the use break down before 3 years? According to some of the older orchid growers I know, American fir bark used to be very highly regarded in Australia and considered of higher quality than radiata pine bark!

FWIW, a lot of Australian growers are now switching from pine bark based mixes to 100% CHC or CHC:bark based mixes. It seems odd that you're thinking about using an old standard Australasian potting mix while we're trying to play catch up to you. :biggrin:

Many in my orchid club are using Orchiata and have had fantastic results. To quote our president "you can almost see orchids shooting out new roots in this stuff". I am trying it and have just repotted a Dracula lotax and Masd. tovarensis. One of the great things about Orchiata is that it doesn't break down as readily as bark so in the long run it is no more expensive. I will keep posting progress reports on the Dracula and Masd. I have repotted in Classic #9 (1/4" x 3/8").

Orchiata has been around for over 20 yrs. Hawaiian orchid nurseries have been using it for about 10-15 yrs. The New Zealand Co., Besgrow, started selling it in California about 5-7 yrs. ago. I've used it for about 18 months now and love it. It's expensive but you shouldn't have to repot for at least 5 yrs. It has Dolomite in it which helps fight pests and diseases. The shipping is about as expensive as the product....but worth it. Hope this helps. :waving

i hadn't come across this until last night when (in the UK) we had a talk(not on orchiata) at our orchid society by Dr Henry Oakley. He brought it our attention and he has found it to be good. Easy for repotting and does not break down as do so many other orchid media.

There has been a lot of discussion recently about this medium raising the ph and we are advised to mix crushed oyster shells with it to lower the ph.

Orchiata bark is composted and treated with dolomite solutions to stabilize the pH. I have seen no such increase over time. The bark alone, however, would become more and more acidic with time.

Oyster shell (calcium carbonate) will raise the pH, not lower it.

Yes, Ray. That's why they tell you not to wash it when potting.it washes away over time. My information came from Glen Decker at Piping Rock.

I see this tread came alive again with people talking about how long this stuff lasts / things don't need to be re-potted as much. Does anyone have any specific thoughts around how Paph's are with it? I use it myself, but two of the large nursery's I get a lot of stuff from here still tell me to re-pot my Paph's at least once a year. Even when Orchiata is used.

Anyone have experiences they would care to share?

I listened to a talk by Glen Decker of Piping Rock Orchids just the other night. He doesn't use Orchiata but instead some US sourced bark, I forget exactly what he said. He says that he likes to repot paphs at least once a year and would repot even twice a year if he had the time. He had a Phragmipedium kovachii for sale for only $375 and he was setup for accepting credit cards but I resisted the temptation and bought several paph species instead.

Yes I have heard the same (and do the same) but I was curious what the experience was with, specific to Orchiata, since the discussion here was that it lasts so much longer than other mediums.

This might not be the main reason for the pH change of media over time. I recently read a study about the reason of pH change. This study was just over 6 months, and they were mainly interested in sphag moss. But in addition to sphag moss, they used orchiata in one experiment. Their experiment showed that the main cause of lowered pH is coming from roots excreting protons and other stuff. Orchiata went from pH of 4.8 to 4.2 after 27 months while sphag went from pH of 3.9 to 2.9. But in sphag, if plants are not growing pH doesn't go down. So washing effect of lime is probably a minor contribution.

Only the abstract is available, but if you want to read the full article, email or PM me: The Acidification of Sphagnum Moss Substrate during Phalaenopsis Cultivation

Decker's point was that if you repot long before the bark has started to decompose then you can repot without disturbing the plant. So there is no point to go longer (unless you have so many plants that it is a burden to repot every year).

Orchiata is a pleasure to work with, in my opinion. I have always had to soak my bark mixes and rinse them to get rid of nasty stuff in the bark, but orchiata is good out of the bag and breaks down VERY slowly.

I use the super course + perlite/hydroton for cattleya orchids, the medium grade with perlite/hydroton for dendro's, and the fine grade with perlite and sphagnum for paphs and phals.

It's a lot more expensive, but it lasts so much longer that I can justify it.

Glen is a great paph grower. I had the privilege of sitting in on one of his talks at the cape and island orchid show a few years back. Unfortunatly i lost most of the paphs i bought from him due to a fire in my house. But the few plants i have left are doing amazing.
That being said, the best i can remember from his talk was that he used organic fert. the decomp with organics is a bit faster than with chemical, based on my experience. So repotting often would make sense.
However i disagree with him about how often a paph should be repoted. Though paphs don't show much stress from repotting and seem to handle it well. I believe repotting a paph should only be done when the media is no good or it has out grown the pot.
With that being said Orchiata sounds like a great media for paphs.