Leaves Falling Off + Old Age??
 

Hi Everyone,

I've been having issues with my orchids this summer. I pride myself on taking great care of them and for some reason this summer they are just not doing well.

I came home from work today and saw a leaf on the floor. A perfect green firm new leaf. It came from my 3 year old orchid which has tons of leaves and roots and air roots. The only suspicious thing i see wrong with it is that the crown looks a bit yellow which is odd. I dont see how it would have crown rot b/c given there are so many leaves the crown is about 4" from the base.

Does anyone know what could be the cause of this. The orchid looks very healthy and has a baby leaf coming out from the center...

Do orchids ever die of old age??


Thank you!

I would assume they would, but...I think they'd have to be very, very old. Three years is nothing for many epiphytical orchids.

What is it, a Phal? Sounds like it.

You know what...how's the air circulation in the growing area during the summer?

What is the medium you're growing them in?

How often are you watering them?

Hi everyone,

Yes it is a phal, i can post a pic if you like...

It is three years old. It is potted in sphagnum moss. I water it one a week or whenever the medium feels dry. I don't really have much circulation as I am in an apt. I just looked at the roots and they look ok...it seem more like a problem with the crown. it's turning a bit yellow!

Does this sound like crown rot? I am always sure not to get water in the top area where the leaves are. I'm not sure why a healthy leaf would just fall off from the top.

One of the problems associated with sphagnum moss is pH (too acidic). Another is that it can compact. Poor air circulation adds to this problem.

Can you add a little fan by it, but not blowing directly at it?

Honestly this is the same problem I had with all my Phals prior to mounting them. I may have occassional situations with my mounted Phals, but not as insurmountable as when they were potted (especially in full moss).

Think about it, a cultural error over an issue of age makes sense...

Many epiphytical orchids can take up to 3 yrs or more to get from seed to small seedling. From seedling to first blooming season can take up to 5 to 10 yrs depending on the species of epiphytical orchid. Afterwards no one's really recorded. But there is reportedly a lady who has had a Phalaenopsis for about 20 yrs. Another example is, from what I understand, the father of the owner of Santa Barbara Orchid Estate had once told me about one of the Cymbidium species he carried. He had told me that this was a division from the same plant that someone had owned either several decades ago (maybe in the 1920's or a couple centuries ago, I don't recall).

Your Phal's problem isn't age, it's cultural. There's something wrong, and your plant's trying to tell you things aren't okay.

Like I said, owning an orchid for 3 years is nothing. They can live to be much, much longer (I hesitate to say definitively, but I believe their life span is closer to the hundreds, basically when they're grown correctly they'll outlive you).

Although the above statement DOES apply to Phals, it may not apply to all other species or genera, but is most likely true for many.

I attached pics of the orchid. it's getting worse! How can i save it. Please help!

I think you should listen to King's advice. He's probably right on with the air circulation thing. You could also repot it in a bark mixture and ditch the moss since you're in an apartment. I also grow in an apartment, and I noticed when I got a phal in sphag that it just wouldn't dry properly no matter how many fans I had running. It was freaking me out so I just repotted it mid bloom and it thanked me by opening the rest of its buds.

The aerial roots look good, but what do your bottom roots look like?
Joann

This look like more than root rot. The aerial roots look OK from the photo. It looks suspitiously like heart rot to me. If not too advanced, you may save the plant with a dose of Thiomyl. But if the leaves are dropping, I think it has advanced too much. The start probably was the decayed or compacted moss as others have suggested. I use very large chunks of fir bark for mine, but some folks here mount there plants so they hang horizontally, just as in nature. The important thing is to balance moisture with plenty of air movement - to dry the crown and the roots. Never water until the roots turn white (you can see all the roots, right? :evil:)

Can you please give me more info. on heart rot. i've never heard of it and i'm unclear how this happened. What is Thiomyl and how do i use it? I have physan 20, is that something that would work as a substitute or is there a big difference between the two? If so, can you tell me the best way to use it in this situation?

I believe Ross is referring to a bacterial ot fungal infection within the plant, probably as a result of something dying and rotting below the surface of the medium.

Physan is a topical (direct contact) treatment, not a systemic one, so it will not have any impact. Thiomyl, on the other hand, is a systemic fungicide.

I have seen plants react that way to environmental (low pH, as King mentioned) and nutritional extremes, too.

Thanks so much for all your feedback!
I attached more pics. I unpotted it so you could see the roots. Here i noticed they are rotten and molding it looks like. Only the air roots are healthy. I'm really not sure how this happened as it was my healthiest and oldest plant. Before I repotted it all the roots were green and healthy. I can't believe they would all spontaneously rot like that!

Can it be saved?? If so, I would love instruction on what to do. I would hate to lose it.

It looks like you still have a couple of good roots in there. I'd cut off all the rotten ones, maybe give it a dunk in some hydrogen peroxide and repot it in a well draining bark mix. As for the crown, I have no idea. I'd say just do what you can and hope for the best.

i am afraid your orchid is history, probably due to compacted moss around the roots....moss holds so much more moisture than you can imagine....and needs more than one week to dry out....the crown is more than likely dead, it started from the bottom down by the moss and worked its way to the top....best thing to do is repot any others you might have, and get them out of the moss....

I agree. If it's important to attempt the save, then try a systemic like Thiomyl. Keep in mind - a systemic works if it is drawn up by the plant. That requires functioning roots since the leaves absorb so little. I get Thiomyl from Thiomyl OSG23: Camp Lot A Noise Tropicals

The decay I refered to is in the core of the plant.

Hi everyone,
Thank you so much for your advice and feedback.
i cut off all the dead roots. gave it a physan/water wash, air-dryed upside down and repotted it in a small plastic pot with bark mix. I HOPE maybe it will grown a new crown as the one on it is clearly rotten. I think I will most likely lose it but I did my best with what I had. It still has lots of healthy air-roots so we'll see. I will post an update if anything changes...thank you all for your help.

I really love the idea of mounting them, my only problem is my location. I live in a rental apt. with minimal light and don't have a wall with any sunlight to put them on or a ceiling in which I am allowed to drill a bunch of holes. Hopefully my conditions will suffice until I am in a home more amenable to growing.

I repotted a few of my other chids in the bark mix as well...and found they too were rotting. I'm still not sure why since the moss always was good for me in the best. Perhaps it is the time of year and the poor ventilation like you all suggested. I will invest in a small fan to circulate some air.

Thanks so much and I will update with any changes!!

Light is the least of your worries with a mounted plant - especially phals, which can thrive in really low-light conditions.

More difficult is watering, as that has to be done a lot with "mounties".

Light is the least of your worries with a mounted plant - especially phals, which can thrive in really low-light conditions.

More difficult is watering, as that has to be done a lot with "mounties".

Hi Everyone,

Just a quick update that I lost this chid :(

Thanks for all your help. I have a lot to learn when it comes to saving them. I bought a bark mix and repotted a few in that since i have no air circulation so hopefully they will like that better moving forward.