SAVE THE ORCHIDS!!
 

Hello newbies (like me)....

If you are in the United States, I am asking all orchid growers to contact their local Trader Joes (if you have this in your state) to try and stop the destruction of orchids.

This may sound silly but two thing are happening that can be stopped.

For one, all the orchids arrive in plastic sleeves and are left like that for weeks which causes cellular damage to the leaves and the stalks as water is often trapped ...this is what happened to one of my orchids that was bought from there as a gift...the poor thing had to be completely cut back...

Secondly...when the HUNDREDS of orchids are not bought after a couple of weeks they are thrown out...just thrown out...the manager of my local Trader Joes said that he had petitioned to have the stores sell the orchids at a discounted price or to allow them to be given away, but so far this petition has been ignored. He said I couldn't even imagine how many flowers and orchids he throws out on a weekly basis. I am asking that everyone please complain to their local trader joes...

It bums me out. I hope everyone can help! And if you are a grower selling your orchids to this chain...you should have more respect for your orchids and know that they are just being brought to their untimely death at these places!!!

Thank you for reading!!

I've seen this discussed before, regarding big box chains like HD and Lowes. I did some rescues last year when I started, but now I question the wisdom. Those are all mass produced plants, which are very likely to be virused. I'm pretty sure one of my rescue phals was virused.

This is a very hot topic on OB, and has been brought up several times before! You have to face it, mass produced orchids are a perishable product just like any other. Once their shelf life is over, off to the trash they go. Selling at a discount is a good idea, but I think stores are afraid that people will want to buy them only at the discount price rather than full price. I worked a few months in a garden center, and you wouldn't believe the huge quantities of plants we dumped each week because they were past blooming or to make space for fresher plants.
Tossing out so many orchids bothers me too, but even at a low price or free, most of those sickly and half rotted orchids are just not worth the time and space to bring them back to health.

At first I thought this thread was going to be about the sale of illegaly harvested Cyps but alas the age old bargain bin vs garbage bin debate.

I'm sympathetic to your first point. Stores should ensure that the plants they sell are healthy. Then again what type of quality do you honestly expect from a grocery store? If you want good quality plants you could always buy plants from an orchid nursery (most do mail order). You'll be supporting local orchid growers and the breeding quality and diversity of choice is usually far better than the mass produced plants you see at supermarkets, and box stores.

As for retailers not selling bargain bin plants, as Camille said, orchids are treated as a perishable product. There's nothing inhumane about throwing a damaged plant out. Trader Joe's like any other store is just looking to make money. They'll make more money by keeping a set price and factoring losses from trashed plants into that price than letting people buy the plant for less once it's past its shelflife. Is this ethical? :dunno:
Is it any more ethical to expect a business to sell old stock for less just so you can get a cheap plant? :dunno: Let's be honest, you wouldn't be so concerned about saving those poor trashed plants if they were going to sell them to you for full price.

Camille,

I didnt realize this was such a discussed topic as it had just happened to me after trying to save the orchid we had discussed before...I suppose you are right that mass production happens a lot...it still saddens me...and I wasnt sure how destroyed the plants were to begin with...if it was like the one I have, then yeah all i have now are bulbs....but i feel like it can still be salvaged...I know that most expert growers would not want to bother with these plants, but for newbies like me, I feel maybe it would be worth the effort...

Cloudswinger,

You may be right that its is beyond hope and they could be virused...I segregated the plant I got. But still, it makes me sick to my stomach to think of all those trashed orchids...but maybe I should just not care like everyone is saying...

Andrew,

...to begin with the plant was a present, and secondly not everyone can afford orchids from a reputable grower, especially new orchid growers, and truthfully I dont want to pay a hundred dollars for a beautiful orchid and i dont have the right environment to cultivate it in or I dont know the intricate ins and outs of owning an orchid yet and it dies... For new people, sometimes getting discounted orchids is the best way for us to start. As for asking a store to offer discounted prices for their trashed orchids, not only would it allow people who cannot afford flowers to actually buy them, if the store donated the flowers which is what i meant by giving them away, then they could write that off and also get a tax incentive.

I dont care about the discounted orchids, and perhaps if you had taken the time to read my other post about my dying baellara eurostar (thanks to camille for the name) that was the present from that place, you would understand that I was more concerned about the orchids being trashed. Having them offered at a discounted price, or even donated, is just one way to try and save them...I would do that for any plant. But it is illogical of you to think that someone would pay full price for a sick and dying plant.

This may be an age old discussion, but I didnt know, and I am still learning about this forum...

I agree but they are not the only ones that abuse orchids. The only retailer I find that sells their orchids at a discount is our local Fred Meyer store in Redmond, OR. When the flowers are spent they mark all the orchids down to $5. I have purchased quite a few at $5 and they were in great shape.

These stores have their policies and changing them is pretty much impossible.

Sheridan

It does sicken me to know how many are getting trashed everyday. But there's pretty much nothing we can do about it, that's how business works. So I try not to think about it, just like I try not to think about all the food the supermarkets throw out everyday.

Not getting orchids there is for me not a matter of being an expert grower or not, it's a matter of having limited space! I would rather have an orchid I really want, rather than a dying phal.
But I suppose I am lucky over here in the Netherlands. Dutch growers churn out millions of orchids a year, and a full price orchid in a supermarket is only 5€, and they're nice and healthy since they didn't have to travel far. Once in a while I come across one that I must have!And the garden centers do discount them. Here I think that not many orchids are thrown out. Dutch people love orchids so much that as soon as my supermarket gets some, they're almost all gone within a few days! Almost every single house has at least one phal sitting on the windowsill.

Siannevo,
I don't think Andrew as being rude, it was just an opinion. And we like to keep things as friendly as possible here.;) Plants mail ordered from growers are not as expensive as you think. True some plants are pricey, and some growers aren't cheap. But you can get some nice ones fairly cheaply if you know when to look, and in much better condition than big box Noids!

I went to a big box store that had a whole cart full of orchids they were about to throw out. I asked if they had been marked down, they hadn't. I asked if they would offer the plants at a discounted rate, they wouldn't budge on the price. So, instead of buying a few from them, I only bought one, the healthiest looking one they had. I too am frustrated that they throw the orchids out as soon as the blooms drop. It is also frustrating to ask if they would give a discount on a plant they will likely not sell and they won't discount it! Most of my orchids have come from a grocery store or Big Box store. I love those just as much as I love the ones I order from an orchid grower.

Camille is right, not all orchids bought from a reputable grower are expensive. She is also right that it depends on the plant and the grower. Don't be afraid to order online from a reputable grower, it's not that bad.

Siannevo,
I've heard those arguments in relation to orchids and non-orchids and I still don't buy it. Orchids are not and essential purchases and stores like Trader Joes, Home Depot, Lowes etc are not charities. I'm all for finding a bargain but I can't see the justification for petitioning a store to sell you their left over merchandise for below retail.

It's the idea that you need to save them that seems ridiculous. Where is the need to save a cultivated orchid? I'm assuming you wouldn't think twice about pulling up a weed, eating vegetables, etc.

What happened to saving the poor orchid from the garbage bin? I still cannot see your argument as anything more virtuous than wanting to buy a sick orchid for half price so you can nurse it back to health and save yourself the cash. There is nothing wrong with doing this but it's cheeky to demand that the store let you do it.


If you don't mind I'm off to the local supermarket to save a block of Cadbury dairy milk.

Andrew I was just trying to do something good...but you only seem to only think ill of me, believe what you want to believe...

It can be fun to nurse an orchid back to health, but after a while it's a lot of effort and the recovering plants (which may not bloom for years) take up space that could hold thriving plants.

I agree that mass production is rarely humane or healthy. Think of the chickens, the cattle, the genetically inferior farmed salmon... and the workers that have to alienate themselves from the intrinsic value of life in order to do their job. The best thing, I think, is to buy from the little guy.

Yes, no one thinks of all the male chicks that are "culled", since it's really only the hens that "have food value". Some places just throw them in the trash, still alive, to suffocate under the weight of all the other chicks on top of them.

I think I understand the point.
A responsible seller would know the needs of the perishibles it sells. They don't put fresh tomatoes and eggs in the freezer, so why do they always mistreat their orchids?

That, and Trader Joes is billing itself as, well, different.

But, alas, it IS all about the money.

Look...I'm going to be honest and I'm going to have to agree with many of the people here (Camille and Andrew especially). I used to work for an orchid nursery myself.

Mass production of popular man-made hybrids do not just "happen a lot", that is a gross understatement. It's a multi-million dollar international industry!

You're looking at clones! The debate of whether they're genetically slightly different individuals from each other, (which may be the case due to science's recent understanding of epigenetics), or not is irrelevant to the issue of true orchid conservation as well.

They are clones. People are able to produce a sea of these things. We used to get these plants by the truck loads! This is NOT an exaggeration!

The growers who do this are masters at tissue culture and cloning.

Is the issue of being wasteful an issue of ethics?

Arguably, I think it is. I believe it is a psychological issue as well. Then you throw the principals of business into this, and this topic just gets ugly.

Can we afford to be this wasteful?

Hypothetically, no. Realistically speaking, I don't know.

Of course, there's always the argument that you can still derive the species if you've got the hybrids adding more genetic material to the mix.

Let's face it...

While it has been done and most definitely can be done. Not many people want to do it, even if they were able to. It's just not efficient. Nor is it desirable to.

Anyways...

Forget about the clones of the man-made hybrids. It isn't worth it.

1. They're clones.

2. They're man-made. You or I, or anyone else in the world for that matter, who has the skill and know-how to do it, can make a hybrid any time they want. People can name them any thing they want (in fact, there was a brief, off-beat, and humorous discussion about vulgar names assigned to orchids by taxonomists and hobbyists alike).

3. It's a multi-million dollar international industry. What you're seeing and talking about is just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak. You're talking about one small cog in a much larger machine. Sorry, but you ain't bringing this down to it's knees by attacking it head on.

I encourage you to redirect your valiant efforts.

Save the species. Species orchids are not always and cannot always be cloned. Unfortunately many species orchids are either not very well known, or not as attractively patterned or colored as the hybrids are. Then there's the issue of many of them having relatively small to tiny flowers.

I also think that part of the problem is not many people are necessarily aware that scientists are saying that we are living in an era which is deemed to be the 6th mass extinction event of our planet (whether you choose to believe this statement or not to whatever degree is up to you, but the massive dying off of many individuals within many species of the planet's different organisms is undeniable). I think that some people are not thinking about the species orchids first, but rather the hybrids first and species second or dead last!

Focus on true conservation. Species. Without species there will be no hybrids.

So there...

Save the species. This is worth your time!

Good points!! Conservation is key! Slipper orchids are my favorites and several species are in danger of being extinct! Species should be grown to the best of our ability.
I tend to stay away from big box stores and to support the vendors who are responsible stewards of our plants. A well grown, not mass produced, plant will do better in my care!

BTW, if you're having to pay "hundreds of dollars" for your orchids, you haven't yet found reputable sellers who sell certain orchids for a mere $5 to $20.

The reason why a lot of people have quite a few orchids is because they are currently made very affordable, probably because of over production.

My point really doesn't apply to orchids.
I don't disagree with anything the King has to say, but I'm looking at this from a different perspective.

It is about the way companies like this sell themselves to the public.
Trader Joes wants us to think they are upscale and responsible.
They are, IMHO, phony hippie leftovers who make their money by adopting the trendy big business of "organic/green".
You are asked to "reduce, reuse, recycle", by folks who don't give a rat zass about the environment, as shown by the carbon footprint of their orchid trash. But if I didn't bring my own hemp tote bag to carry my soy milk home, I am a villian destroying the environment.

I don't buy their hype, and I don't shop there.
It saddens me that so many people are being fooled.

But hey, this is America. I hope they make a boatload of money.

This is not meant to be a personal attack...

The above statement is a very loaded one believe it or not. It looks very simple on the surface, but there's quite a bit of complexity to it, given the context in which it was written.

This attitude is in my opinion how big corporations get away with a lot of things. I'm sure, this is not just an American issue, but rather a world wide issue.

It does offer a glimpse of the dynamics happening with the original topic posted.

But it's just part of the story, not all of it.

This is actually way too big of a topic, and I may be getting in way over my head on this one. Not to mention, this is starting to move away from the topic of the original post, so I'll just end it here.

Folks this really is a very simple issue of supply and demand. Basic economics. If you want the mistreatment of billions of cloned orchids to stop......then reduce the demand for them by NOT buying them. If everyone stopped buying their sick and dying orchids then the BB stores would not order so many, and the wholesalers would have to reduce production. If you "save" them you're only encouraging business as usual.

Buying from a reputable grower is very reasonable, and you know what you're getting. I've very rarely spent over $20 for a plant online. It keeps the mom and pop businesses going and in a small way helps to ensure continuation of species that might otherwise disappear. I agree with King. Everyone should have at least one species orchid. They're magical. ;)

I have to agree mass produced clones are just perishables ....go save a colony of wild chids way cool Im there but tissue cultured chids are a commodity and while they could mark em down OR for that matter take better care of them while there It aint gonna happen

See! There's a very good idea!

Not many newbies know this, but here in the good old US of A, we have lots of native orchids. They're no Phalaenopsis, but they're beautiful in their own right.

For example...

Did you know that Pogonia ophioglossoides is native to the US in places like Missouri and North Carolina to name a few places in it's range? So are Epipactis gigantea (I've actually seen a small wild colony of these in Santa Barbara, CA). We also have plants like Cypripedium californicum and Cyp kentuckiense. Then there's Calypso bulbosa. Spiranthes cernua is also native to the US. Tipularia discolor. Galearis spectabilis. Aplectrum hyemale. The list goes on...

Depending on where you are in the states, you can look for these during a hike and take photos of them.

There are also conservation groups involved in the protection of our native US orchids.

Check those out.

Some of these species are even for sale in the orchid hobby trade.

Some are not easy to grow for a beginner, but there are a few that are very growable.

Quiltergal, I'm not directing this at you but at the premise of the thread which, after 6 months, I still think is a bit absurd. Maybe I'm a bit too simple for this topic and maybe I need to get in touch with my inner Buddha but I just don't get moral outrage behind the so called mistreatment of cultivated orchids, which seems to be at the core of the original post. Sure it's a waste of resources but it's not exactly the epitome of poor stock management.

Two good points tha have been raised: If you want to save orchids, put your effort into supporting those people conserving wild populations. If you want to save the orchid industry, buy direct from the orchid nurseries. (and you don't have to pay hundreds of dollars for them ;))

Andrew...I totally agree. "Mistreated" was mostly tongue in cheek. ;)

The point is put your money to better use elsewhere. The BB stores and the mass producers only care about one thing, their bottom line. Buying a half dead orchid from them isn't going to send them reeling with remorse. They're going to crank out a bazillion more as fast as they can, cause they just made $10 bucks off you. If you want to purchase orchids and feel righteous about it, then spend your money at well respected greenhouse.

:dumb:

I didn't realize this thread was started 6 months ago when I posted. It just showed up as a new post since yesterday.

Oh well...

It may be absurd to answer an old thread, but I guess it wasn't a complete waste of time either. :biggrin:

Even if siannevo may have moved on from the topic, this discussion may offer others insight on this topic should they be thinking the same thing.

:lol:

I believe it's more about an emotional response to an ethically questionable industry practice that shows sentiment towards another living being that has significance to the person, coupled with the nurturing aspect of humanity rather than "moral outrage" or "wanting to be one with the universe". If it were crabgrass, not a lot of people would give a blink, morals or no morals.

Everything relevant has been said, so forgive me if this is reiteration, but I have some questions.

Is it any less offensive when someone throws out their Poinsettia?

What would you do if you rescued 15 orchids a month for a year and ran out of space for your preferred plants and you couldnt give them away?

I must say I totally agree with king. Species orchids should be first on the priority list. I come from a reptile background and even mentioning hybrids sparks visious remarks. Once a species goes extinct it is gone but if you lose a certain hybrid it can be recreated by combining the parental species again. I am new to this hobby but aren't most of the mass produced hybrids a product of meristemming or mericlonning. In other words all you need is the original and you have a copy of the thousands that are thrown away. I know it is more complicated than that but that is the basic idea. My collection is in my opinion great for a beginner but it consists mainly of hybrids. I have yet to have you knowledgable forum members validate some of my suspected species orchids. The ones that are considered species I will keep and the hybrids I will get rid of. I will NOT be throwing them in the garbage, rest assured. Eventually I want my entire collection to be species only. Sorry for the long ramble but I feal very strongly about the importance of species orchids.

I don't understand the 'no hybrids' thing. I agree, don't get those mass produced NOIDs. But there are great local/small sized orchid breeders that create some wonderful (and named) hybrids!

And how is buying only species supposed to save them? It's not going to put them back in the wild.

I agree on your many points.

There are some beautiful hybrids.

Buying only species is only one way saving them can be done. But there is a catch...

Enough people in the world have to have the intent of breeding them or reproducing them, not just buy them and grow them for themselves. Then and only then can they be saved.

There may be evidence that suggests it can be done! I don't know to what degree this is true or what the details are, but somewhere I've heard about the mediterranean tortoises having a large population boom because of captive propagation by hobbyists.

Another great example we see now is in domesticated dogs and cats.

Again, enough people must have the intent on not just growing them and keeping them to themselves, they must have the intent to breed them and spread them around!

What makes this problematic is that proper and detailed habitat information makes this feat very time consuming and very difficult!

Then there's not every one thinks the same way about the hobby.

This is also the reason why I have problems with certain CITES regulations. They seem to not be able to take this into account.

I think if you are into orchids for showy flowers then hybrids are ok. The only reason I have any is to have some flowers in the house from time to time. They may as well be cut flowers so I would not be likely to 'rescue' any either.

I don't think we can say whether growing and breeding species will one day allow them to be placed back in nature but for sure growing hybrids will not.

orchid collecting phases
 

I think this whole thread is symptomatic of many hobby and fashions phases - you start off seeing orchids in the garden centre or the supermarket and you like them. You buy one or three or five. Soon your friends are buying them and giving them as gifts.Then you start to learn about them and discover that there are hundreds being destroyed on garbage heaps, You are outraged about this and start rescuing them. Then you realize that they can't recover or can't be safely mixed with healthy orchids but by then it's too late cos they're either dead, limping or have infected your other plants. So then you think seriously about the money you've invested so far and you either go the whole hog and support the proper green houses and nurseries and the conservation efforts or you throw in the towel and move onto the next craze....does anyone remember cacti, African violets, miniature roses????

I am at the seriously thinking phase and I think I'm going to opt for species, proper names hybrids and conservation, because I have the time to do it --- but nothing is as easy as popping an orchid in the cart at the checkout, and that's why there is a massive industry producing these things.

You have to remember that these phases apply to all sorts of hobbies - an easy in to get you hooked. A healthy Phalaenopsis clone is a reliable relatively easy houseplant that lasts a lot longer than a bunch of cut flowers (who'd like to consider that garbage heap???)and may lead to one becoming a serious hobbyist like King:)

I'm a "newbie", but yet I KNOW that there are lots of native orchids in the USA. It seems arrogant and condescending for this thread to stray so far from its original topic.

This has become the new thread topics...

"You're a Newbie? Well you don't know nothing!

"THIS is what you should care about, not THAT!"

Tell it to someone else, I'm outta here.

There is no need to get angry. You have a right to not like a thread, but there's no need to be quite so rude about it. You may know about the existence of native orchids, but I can assure you that there are 'newbies' who don't. Even for those who do know, King pointed out some examples of orchids growing in the USA that I didn't know about.

I just reread this thread, and still don't see where you get your new 'thread topics'. :scratchhead: Maybe some people have strong opinions, but IMO it's far from being what you describe. I actually enjoyed reading and contributing to this interesting thread.

I really don't think anyone is trying to be arrogant or condescending. But, sometimes we are all in a mood and things strike us in the wrong way. I know it has happened to me and it was me not the people that posted.

So, I completely understand your reaction and I also hope you come back.

Man! Chill out!

Who's arrogant and condescending?

Me?!

I assure you when I started the hobby and even in the first five years of being in it, I knew jack diddly about native orchids. I didn't even know they existed! Hell, I only recently in the last 5 yrs of being in the hobby have had a basic understanding of how many we really have! I didn't even know California had any, until I was told by the father to the owner of Santa Barbara Orchid Estate. This was my first realization that Epipactis gigantea even existed.

You wanna know something...and this is gonna be a real kicker!

Your state of Nevada has native orchids! Yeah...

I didn't know that until some time last year! That's right, the year 2009. Talk about obscure!

So am I being arrogant and condescending to myself and others like me?

I must either have massive self esteem issues or be pretty masochistic in order to do that (sarcasm).

Wow! What a load.

I didn't say everybody doesn't know. I said some people didn't. Am I wrong? What, so I'm not being sensitive to those who don't know? So, what you're telling me is that I was an idiot newbie for not knowing in the past and that other newbies should know too, because if they didn't, then they're idiots as well?

What's your point?

I never intended to insult those newbies who did know. At least I didn't think so until now!

I never intended to insult those who didn't know either.

In fact, I never intended to ever insult any level of hobbyist!

I also never intended to say that nobody should have any hybrids. How much bs is that!

BTW, I have owned some hybrids. I still have a few. And I'd like to think that I've helped many people here on the OB with their hybrids. I also think that some photographs of hybrids that members on the OB have posted are beautiful.

So if you want me to be blunt...you have no argument!

If you want an apology for me hurting your feelings, then I'm sorry, I sincerely apologize. But I'm not sorry for trying to put together as solid of an argument as I can for what I believe should be done in true orchid conservation.

You're free to attack my arguments. However, you're not welcome to attack me personally without just cause and thinking things through thoroughly. In this respect, I think you owe me an apology.

However...

Whether you choose to apologize or not is up to you. I won't hold it against you, ever. I understand what it means to save face.

I was referring to the premise of the original post, not to replying when someone revives an old thread.

Camille,
Re: Hybrids vs species. It's different horses for different courses. Don't take it personally.

Noted.

I certainly hope I didn't offend anyone as well. I have no problem with hybrid orchids or the people that keep them. I just have an interest in species orchids with the hope that some day I can contribute to the conservation of a species or two. I hate the thought of not being able to go out in nature and see plants and animals where they belong but it is a reality. As far as the post changing topics I believe any conversation changes topics and evolves. This is the beginner forum. People should post things that are considered common knowledge. I knew there were orchids native to north america but I didn't know the genus names of these. Now I have something to research. I urge King and everyone else to post any information that is considered common knowledge because I may not know. I have two goals to acheive on this forum, to meet new people that share my interest in orchids and to learn more about the hobby, I hope I didn't jeopordize this with my remarks.

Regards Ryan

King (and Andrew for that matter),
I think it's not what you said, but your "tone" which can easily be miscontrued through the ole Internet. I've often read your posts in my time here, and while informative, they also carry a " You should really have known this" tone.
Don't change it if it doesn't bother you, but don't be suprised if it bothers a few more people in the course of things.

HeidiN I think you're right.

And I want to set the record straight.

However it may appear on the internet, for me, it's not about, "you should've known this".

I think people are hurt because I sometimes sound too elementary.

Sometimes I start from square one. Some people find that offensive and condescending.

Honestly, in my opinion, sometimes it's best to start off at square one. For me, sometimes it's review.

Hell one of my best friends knows that I'm hardcore into growing orchids, but he slipped up one time and said to me when I was admiring his parent's Cattleya, "Yeah, it's pretty big. That's a Cattleya." All I did was smile, I wasn't mad at him at all. My other best friend reminded him gently, that "Oh, he didn't need to be told that, he already knew that." We all laughed it off. It wasn't terribly offensive or condescending. Are we still friends? Hell yeah we are!

I'm also aware that hobbyists of all levels use the OB. Just because some super experienced person is on the OB doesn't mean I should write responses to people who are just starting out from square one in a way that leaves the beginners in the dust.

This is a beginner's forum!

Then there have been times when I've lost patience when it appeared that people did not want to give out their cultural information when they're asking for help for whatever reasons.

It was later pointed out that sometimes people do not know what kinds of cultural information to give out in order to receive the proper help.

I'd like to think that I've made efforts to adjust to this.

Perhaps it's also when I highlight certain words or phrases.

Let it be known, I'm not too keen on internet lingo and why people use bold faced letters and uppercases. I sometimes break the rules of internet lingo! Heck! I didn't know what the acronyms IMAO, IMO, and IMHO meant until sometime late last year when I decided to finally stop being clueless about it and look them up. I didn't know what "xoxo" meant until 2007! Even worse, I didn't fully realize that typing letters in all caps on the internet meant that I was "shouting for emphasis" until sometime in the fall of last year after watching someone's comedy routine! I still have yet to know what boldfacing letters on the internet really means in internet lingo!

Why was I not aware of this? Because for the longest time, I didn't really need the internet. I was not an "AIM or AOL junky" like my little sister was. I wasn't a "chatroom junky" for any period of time. It wasn't until libraries started to be inconvenient to gather information from and some started to close down that I was using the internet much more extensively!

I'm honestly only actively using three forum websites. One for terrestrial orchids. The OB. Then the last one is for the Travel Channel show, Ghost Adventures. Other than that, I'm not an active member on Orchid Geeks. The first two are the longest running.

When I highlight words or phrases, I'm not necessarily always "shouting for emphasis". It's all in context.

More often, those highlighted words or capitalized letters are used to emphasize the important stuff from the non-important stuff. It's much like the highlighted or italicized vocabulary words you'd find riddled all over a textbook. Especially if the text I'm posting is long!

I certainly don't enjoy walking on eggshells, but I certainly don't enjoy hurting others either.

So whatever the myriad of permutations of why people think I'm a condescending jerk is, I can't cater to all of it. I'm doing my best, and if I'm still a condescending jerk for trying to be considerate, then I can't help that.

But, thank you HeidiN. You're a doll. :)

So whatever the myriad of permutations of why people think I'm a condescending jerk is, I can't cater to all of it. I'm doing my best, and if I'm still a condescending jerk for trying to be considerate, then I can't help that.

Wow!!! I haven't been online since my mac died a week ago. Just can't miss this drama.:rofl:

King, it's one thing to be taken wrong for one's misinterpreted postings, but another to respond to it. Don't let yourself get caught up in it...K?