Goodbye AOS
 

I wonder how many of us used to wait in anticipation for our AOS Journal to arrive in the post?

When I first joined 15 years ago or so, the Journal was in its small "chapbook" format; I personally liked this form, but agree that it was hard to publish pictures of some blooms to size. I also liked the layout which put articles and growing information in the front of the Journal, and advertisements in the rear portion of the publication. Changes were made about 5 or 6 years ago, and the Journal went "trade" sized--pictures could be shown full sized and articles did not have to be wrapped around illustrations in odd ways. The trade off to this new size? Now advertisements were sprinkled throughout the Journal--good or bad, that was just the way it was. I acclimated to the reformat.

Then there was a hurricane (forgive me Florida and Gulf Coast friends, but I do not remember which...) which damaged a great deal of the AOS Gardens/Centre, and members saw our dues rise; where I once paid $45 for membership and Journal fees, I now was to pay $60. Grudgingly, I did so. I wonder how many AOS members out there have ever been to the AOS Centre in Florida, or how many ever will go?

Over the past 18 months I have watched the Journal steadily slide downhill: first there was the inclusion of Lindleyana in the Journal (forgive me if I remember wrongly, but this used to come as a biannual supplement to the Journal...and now that I think further back, was also available en masse as a seperate publication), giving the average orchidist a few nice pictures and a diatribe on new species or genus classification which require a degree in botany to interpret; second, cross advertising in the Journal increased (I don't remember seeing advertisements for the AHS, Orchid Digest or other non AOS socieities in Journals of the past); third, advertising space and advertisements in general appear to have increased, it now seems that the Journal is one of "those publications" (shout out to Men's Health) which requires one to read through the ads to find the articles; finally, the Jan 2009 Journal has undergone another change in format, supposedly this is to ensure that the AOS operates in the black in the coming year--pages have been narrowed to allow for better use of space, the binding of the Journal has been changed be more economical, and those ads I've been noticing, here again en masse.

For $60 I get a publication that has great photos, but is nowhere near the reading quality of Smithsonian or National Geographic (both steals at $12 and $15 respectively), I get free admission to the AOS Gardens and free or reduced admission other gardens across the US (though a contribution of $35 to the AHS will give me the same benefits, and a bimonthly publication as well) and other fringe benefits (reduced AOS award processing fees, an Orchid Vendor directory, discounts for classes at the AOS Centre, etc.). I'm sorry AOS, but it's goodbye for me. I'll use the $60 that I'm not paying you this coming year to buy some seedlings this summer. I'll get my orchid growing questions answered in online forums, where I can engage in conversation with a broad range of growers and hobbyists. If I need a photo-illustration of flowers or foliage, I'll zip to Jay Pfahl's excellent site or let Google help me out. And those ads and vendor directory? Orchidmall does a hell of a job keeping me posted should I care to browse.
Adam

In complete agreement with you here, Adam. I first joined the AOS back in the early 1990s, and I thought the AOS bulletin was pretty good. But as the years went by the bulletin started to remind me of the horticultural version of GQ magazine: lots of glossy pictures and a whole lot of advertisements that I could easily have lived without. I understand the need for commercial growers to make a living, but when over half of the pages of the society's monthly publication were devoted to ads, it became something of an annoyance to have to thumb through all of the garbage in order to get to the articles. You must be more patient than I am, as I let my subscription expire long ago (probably right after the series of hurricanes hit Florida and the price of the newly-named publication significantly increased). Once in a while I still go to the AOS website, but it seems (and I say "seems" because this is just an opinion and by no means do I think that necessarily makes mine any more valuable than the next person's) that there's just a lot of useless information there. I would be curious to know (if anyone on here does, in fact, know) what today's AOS membership number is, especially in comparison to say, five, ten and fifteen years ago. Oh well, can't say that I miss them too much. And, like you, I do think Nat'l Geographic's still a great bargain at $15! :D

Steve

Dear Steve,

By law, publishers MUST publish details once a year in a "Statement of Ownership". This appears in the December issue of Orchids magazine - purposefully buried in the back with the information in very small type face (? 7 point type ?). There is absolutely no way that the information can be read with the unaided human eye. I find a 40x handlens to be a minimum requirement. In addition, the information isn't clearly stated - like a direct membership number. They clearly publish this information kicking and screaming.

If you give them the benefit of the doubt and give them the high number (average over the past 12 months) the membership is 16,667. If you are pessimistic and go by the last month mailed, the membership is down to 13,808. In either case, the AOS has lost almost exactly 1/3 of the membership in the past 6 years (Dec 2002 - Dec 2008).

No opinions here on this forum, those are the hard data they are forced to publish.

It is all very sad, Eric

I only joined the AOS two years ago so I can't compare what I receive now to what it was years ago. I look forward to receiving the magazine each month but have only been to AOS Headquarters once and never used any of the other benefits so far.

I check out their web site every once in a while and have found some good information there...but my true alliance is to Orchidboard and the friends I have here.

Adam and Steve, we're very happy to have you here with us and if you no longer feel you want to be part of the AOS, that is of course, your choice...as my mother-in-law says: "that's why they make brown shoes and black shoes" ;)

Ah well, out with the old and in with the new; hopefully the AOS will find a way to roll with the punches and woo some of us back. I'll still check their site on occasion, but I won't hold my breath. I love your MIL's quote Sue!
Adam

Good information, Eric. Thank you. I too hope that the AOS manages to rebound and recoup the old membership numbers they had when I first joined. I always did look forward to the bulletin arriving each month, and especially liked any information that pertained to the actual growing of orchids. But the internet might have been as much a killer for them as it has been for numerous other hardcopy publications. Why spend $60 per year for something when you can easily turn to an online resource (like this one) that provides great information and allows you to interact with other individuals who share your hobby for a fraction of the price? Thanks, Susanne, for your comments also! :-)

Steve

I agree whole hardily, with Steve. "Back in the day" the only cultural information that was up to date was AOS. They held a monopoly on orchid information. I think it was biased, as well. You only had cultural info from the "whos, who" of the orchid world. Now in the age of a few clicks...you have info from some of the best orchidists in the world...the backyard grower who would have never been invited to contribute to the bulletin.

I can understand the frustration, but like Sue, I have just recently joined AOS so I can't speak to the changes over the years. I do think it is sad that AOS is losing it's members. I understand that things have changed as far as the availablitly of info online and on forums like this one, but do we just leave? What happens when the OB becomes outdated - do we just move on the newer and shinier forums?

What I'm saying (I think) is that the AOS was there for us when nobody else was. Maybe it's just my personal view on loyalty, but if the OB became obsolete due to another forum that meets my needs better, I wouldn't just ditch the OB for the new board. I'd give feedback and lobby for change and updating here at the OB. Just like the AOS we are member driven. What if everyone who wanted things a little different just left? It would no longer be the board we've come to love.

I see this as a similar situation. We all chose to join AOS because they provided us with something. Any society is merely a collection of members. Without any members, it will fail. To initiate change, we have to participate, even when we feel underrepresented or disenfranchised (but only if we still care). How many of us just don't vote because we're not happy with our government? Silly huh, when you're unhappy is when your vote is needed the most.

I totally respect anyone's choice to leave the AOS as we all have different motives and philosophies. But me - I'll stay on with the AOS. They may not be everything I need (that's why Im here), but the orchid growing world needs the AOS to drive formal education, research, and conservation initiatives. Just my :twocents: .

AOS is not them....it's us. The policy makers at AOS are members just like the rest of us...except they give their time and spend their money to manage the organization for all of us. The paid staff is are not policy makers just paid assistants to execute the policies.

AOS provides an excellent judging system so we can compare our growing ability with others..past and present. AOS provides leadership in conservation efforts and research. AOS provides educational data and opportunity and the opportunity to network with serious orchidists. Internet forums don't do those things. Quit complaining about what AOS does or doesn't do for you and find out what you can do for AOS. Tha's what makes the world better.

A friend of mine once said during a stock market decline, "when all the weak sisters get out the rest of us will have their money". Meaning of course that most investors buy too late (high) and panic and sell low. Cattle farmers are famous for buying and selling at exactly the wrong times. Don't be a weak AOS sister and quit just when you're needed. Anybody can carp about stuff, it takes a man to jump in and make things work correctly. When the weak sisters are gone, there will still be an AOS. Don't listen to pessimism.

Molly,

Can you give a specific example of actual orchid conservation by the AOS? Can you name a specific orchid that they been instrumental in saving?

Royal,

Loyalty is a 2-way street. I was a member for 30 years before dropping my membership. It has been a long time since the AOS leadership has had any respect for its members. Fighetti's glad handing is glitz, not respect. Do not accuse those of us who choose to drop our memberships of somehow being disloyal.

Probably the most disturbing aspect of the "new" AOS is their refusal to deal with accusations of anti-Semitism made by their former employee Andy Easton at an AOS Trustees Meeting. The advice they have been getting from their lawyers is anathema to a member society. They need new lawyers - or perhaps to do away with them in their entirety. Why the silence?

Eric, a former doggedly loyal AOS member for 30 years!

I'm staying out of this except for one thing, http://homepage.mac.com/dotbarnett/G...nuary%2009.pdf Scroll on down to top of Page 8, an exerpt from Dr Eric Christenson which seems to adress your question directly! :((

Thanks for the address Ross, it was an interesting read.

Molly: you make an interesting point about judging, but I wonder how many participants in an orchid show know how judging actually works. How often do judges explain why the decisions about plants were made, and how they came to their conclusions? Yes, the process is explained to student judges, but why not to everyone else? I also wonder how many AOS members understand the difference between ribbon judging and AOS judging...
Eric: I fully agree, loyalty is a two way street, I find it unfortunate that the members of the organiztion are not consulted before changes to the organization are made. If we are truly supposed to have a voice, then let us use it to voice our pleasure and our displeasure.
Adam

I joined in 1977 and was a member until 2003. I did not renew my membership for 2003 and have not regretted it. That was not long after the time the format changed and I agree (and agreed then) with what has been said: the overall usefulness of the periodical has declined and the price gone up to the point where I am no longer willing to put out the money. I agree also that the "user-friendliness" of the AOS has decreased and remember complaints about that back in the 1990's. It was an entirely different philosophy that drove the AOS in the days of Gordon Dillon and Richard Peterson.

I think that the best way to learn these things is to volunteer to be a clerk at an orchid show. I loved clerking every time I did it and you can learn so much just by listening to the judges discussing what they're looking at.

Hey Eric, I was really careful not to accuse anyone of anything, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. I understand that I'm late to the game, so to speak, so I avoided judging anyone's decicions. I agree about loyalty being a two-way street, but I was speaking to my loyalty to the OB not yours or anyone elses. Again, sorry if this wasn't clear. Here's what I said (note the last sentence):

[cut and pasted from my earlier post]: Maybe it's just my personal view on loyalty, but if the OB became obsolete due to another forum that meets my needs better, I wouldn't just ditch the OB for the new board. I'd give feedback and lobby for change and updating here at the OB. Just like the AOS we are member driven. What if everyone who wanted things a little different just left? It would no longer be the board we've come to love.

To initiate change, we have to participate, even when we feel underrepresented or disenfranchised (but only if we still care). How many of us just don't vote because we're not happy with our government? Silly huh, when you're unhappy is when your vote is needed the most. I totally respect anyone's choice to leave the AOS as we all have different motives and philosophies [end of quote]

Royal, you didn't say anything out of line...the above quote states it very simply.

Thank you

Whew! compared to 30 years of AOS membership i'm just an orchid infant, and i try to respect me elders. :)

:babyboy

For me there was about a ten year lapse in my membership. My original membership was ended just before they switched format with the magazine. I again joined a few months ago. Yes, I liked the older magazine better (it was a "bulletin" then). And I agree that the membership price is high. However, I would like to think that some of my money goes to conservation and conservation activities. If they save a few wild orchid species through their activities then, really, the magazine is just gravy to me. I support the AOS not for a silly printed magazine which may or may not interest me in a given month, but because they do remain a voice for the plants on the world scene. Yes, I'm naive.

Hey Royal,

You didn't push any buttons. It is just that sometimes loyalty means working from outside of a corrupt system. If you travel around the country you will find that many, many people who dropped their membership did it because of a sense of betrayal. They were loyal to the AOS and the combination of Lee Cooke and Rob Griesbach changed all that. Sadly the current powers that be simply stonewall and will not address past abuses.

It was "participation" outside of the system that finally got us out of Vietnam.

Eric

I grew up in a family of "orchid" people. I remember AOS bulletins everywhere in my childhood home. As I grew up I raided the house for past issues and had my membership paid on many a Christmas. I always longed for more information about plants NOT grown under optimum conditions. My favorite reads were about collecting expeditions into jungles around the world.

I was blissfully unaware of the politics of the "orchid" world. As I grew older I became disenchanted with it. I stopped my membership about 10 years ago. I found the "good 'ol boy network too much to take.

Of course, this is only my opinion. I respect the fact that there are many folks that have a fierce loyalty to AOS. It all boils down to "whatever floats your boat". For me the dawn of the internet, did for me what the bulletin does for the ones that rally for AOS. I found mentors in the orchid world via the internet. I've held on to them tightly.

"Nothing great in the world has been accomplished without passion."

I think the above quote would apply to those passionate enough to care. I respect your devotion.

Good point.

I origianlly joined the AOS in 1991 and renewed my membership every year until finally in 2003 (or maybe it was 2004??). I have only renewed my membership last month because I was able to get the student rate and only paid $63 for a 2 year memebership. If the quality of "bulliten" doesn't improve I will not likely renew again.

As Program Director for our local society I responded to questions on the judging system by asking an AOS judge to give a talk at our monthly meeting. I have attended such meetings in the past and found it extremely interesting and helpful. Just an idea for those who might be able to ask a judge to speak to their own society.

I have been an AOS member for about four years and although it is expensive (Canadian rate with the exchange!) I enjoy it. Seeing as I actively show and have won a few AOS awards, the break on the fees, being a member, have been great. I have also written an article for the magazine and that was a very rewarding experience. Hopefully the AOS can navigate the current problems and come out stronger in the long run.

Wendy, thanks for your attitude. Your article was great and I saw some pictures of your awards somewhere and you certainly deserved them.

I don't want Susanne to delete this post so I'm being careful. The President just said at his news conference, "I meet people who disagree with me , but they are civil in their disagreement. I meet some who are not." There are some here who are not. They are just destructive. They have no intention of making constructive criticisms. They get their entertainment from being intellectual suicide bombers. I'm not interested in them. I doubt many others are either. Bush also said "self pity is pathetic". I agree! Get the hell up and do something useful.

I'm no prophet, but you are about to see some actions that should cause you to wonder if trivial carping about Orchids is really important. The magazine can never be everything to everybody. It is not possible.

All I can say is that now is the time to drop trivia and little nits and everybody work together to get beyond this economic mess that is affecting AOS but not the fault of AOS. To paraphrase a famous American, This is the time to ask what you can do for your society, not what your society can do for you.

Hi Jim...

:thankyou

To be clear on this, the only time I feel the need to moderate anything on this board is when it is antagonistic and/or out of line.

We all have our opinions...and if they can be stated without insulting other members of our community, that's fine by me ;)

:haveagreatday:

This is so true! It does take a lot of effort, and perseverance, but it is one of the only ways to bring about real change. (Comparing it to the political system has its limitations, as there is no built in democratic vote every so many years that allows for wholesale policy change in response to 'popular demand'.)

I was an AOS member back in the early 1990s, when I was living in the US. I have looked at membership again in recent years, but the costs are just too high relative to the benefits I would get. But I think that if I still lived in America, I would probably still be a member.

"The magazine can never be everything to everybody. It is not possible."

What a defeatist statement...based solely on looking at the very narrow perspective of one issue... rather than looking at the larger perspective of the cumulative content of all the past issues. Just imagine how ineffective this forum would be if new members could only have access to topics that were started after they joined.

One of the goals of the AOS is information dissemination. They've got a ton of great orchid information...they just aren't disseminating it. They haven't even been compiling a complete digital index of past article titles. If they ever got around to doing that then digitizing articles isn't rocket science. A decent typist can type up an article only a little slower than it takes somebody to read an article out loud.

Based on the information that the AOS makes readily accessible...the alternatives offer much better value for less money.

...
I have to disagree with this second quote...there is no magazine, web site or anything that can be everything to everybody. I don't think it was said as a defeatist statement...it was just a statement of how things are. We are all individuals and what is good for one person may not necessarily be good for the next.

This thread has a very good open adult conversation going on...let's keep it that way and not let it become an argument :nono:

Thank you :)

cb977...just because you disagreed with my point...does that mean that you are arguing with me? Not quite sure how you distinguish disagreeing from arguing.

My point was that the AOS can be a lot more to orchid hobbyists than it currently is... merely by disseminating articles from earlier issues. Saying that the organization can't be everything to everybody implies that it shouldn't bother trying to meet the information needs of all orchid hobbyists. In my book, accepting the status quo as unchangeable is defeatist.

I'm still trying to figure out why the overall impression is that the AOS' purpose is to put out a magazine?

There is a definite distinction between arguing and disagreeing. It's all in the way things are said...or typed.

I, for one, was just disagreeing with your statement. I don't argue, it's a waste of my time.

Dana: my original point was not that it's the AOS' purpose to put out a magazine, but rather that as time has passed the quality of their services has faltered. The magazine is a perk of membership, but it once was a way of dissemnating information (through my rose colored glasses), and now seems to be a collection of advertisements with information sprinkled throughout (again, through my rose colored glasses). Aside from judging at orchid shows, the Journal is most people's window into the workings of the AOS, for many the publication is the AOS.
Adam

The vast majority of AOS members have always been orchid growers who are new to orchids or still learning. If you compare the magazine as it is today with what it was at the beginning, it becomes very clear that the focus has changed and the newer grower has to wade through a lot of other stuff including ads to find anything. Advertising has also assumed too big a place in the magazine. These are major problems since the magazine is the ONLY benefit that most members receive. Even the advertising is so expensive that only the larger growers can advertise in it any more. All of whicch adds up to the fact that the AOS lives and exists on a different level than the majority of its members.

"Saying that the organization can't be everything to everybody implies that it shouldn't bother trying to meet the information needs of all orchid hobbyists. In my book, accepting the status quo as unchangeable is defeatist."

First, I never said that...I said the magazine can't be everything to everybody...and maybe I should add...all the time. There are too many different interests to consider. Do not mischaracterize what I said and attack the mischaracterization. It's the oldest trick in the book.

Secondly..the AOS has a plan to put the entire content of the magazine on line (to members only I think, anything else would be suicide). I would think that you would know that "typing" it in is not necessary, desirable, or efficient. Do you think Google is typing in every book in the world? I would have expected more from you. Anyway...that probably is not going to happen in the short run.

I must admit to continuing to scratch my head about this advertising issue that has been raised. Advertising is generally good...it brings in money...advertisers are not stupid. They want (demand) placement to get noticed. Is this really something worth complaining about? I think not....would you prefer no magazine...how about higher dues? I don't mean to be dismissive, but is this really a serious issue?

Everybody has ideas, but putting your ideas on an internet forum is at best inefficient. Why not call up the proper person in AOS and discuss it? First I think you need to realize that your particular idea is just that ...yours. Maybe the consensus will be it isn't too good. No wonder Congress can't do anything. We can have an argument about ads in a magazine. Is that really worthwhile?

In a business, once a decision is made you can demand that employees work to fulfill the goal or leave the business. In a volunteer organization with dues paying members you can not demand anything. It's up the members to cooperate with each other to advance the group. Sometimes you get your way, sometimes not. This "take your ball and bat and go home" attitude is a hopeless trek to no where. I told you yesterday and I'm telling you today, this failure to come together to move the AOS forward has brought no where into sight.

If you wanted to crash AOS, you're succeeded. My congratulations to you on a job well done. You put your petty and sometimes not so petty interests ahead of the best interests of the AOS, orchids, a national interest group, and a fun hobby for many of us. You've created chaos, hard feelings, and likely the end of a dream vision for the organizations future. It'll continue, but not as it is and not as it could have been. Congratulations...pessimism, self-interest, and personal selfishness won. You are king....the good guys lost and the bad guys will be happy.....you will soon see.

a BIG....HUH? Bad guys winning? Good guys losing?? I thought this was just a discussion on a individual's opinion on AOS in general?

Mr. Molly,

You are just plain snide but you are snide in keeping with the AOS can do no harm philosophy of this website. What you don't know about the AOS is staggering.

For the record, the word is nowhere, not no where. One can't help but think of Young Frankenstein - Where wolf - there wolf.

Eric

Not being a new member but fairly new to posting on this board couple that with not knowing any of your online personalities. That said.....

I don't think you might be the best spokesperson for AOS. I don't mean that harshly, but I do mean it.
I don't see any hidden agendas in any of the posts that were questioning AOS. They were respectful and thought provoking.

Eric, once again, you are becoming a disruption to this board and I am asking you nicely, this one last time, to stop being so rude and insulting to our members.

For the last time, we DO NOT bash each other on this board...it is not acceptable behavior and will not be tolerated.

You have offered a lot of very useful information regarding orchids here and that has always been appreciated...but the personal attacks negate your orchid-growing knowledge.

You need to decide whether or not you would like to continue to be a part of our community.

Your reply to this post will reflect the choice you make.

Everyone on OB is entitled to an opinion and a voice. However, you have once again, brought in such a negative attitude to OB. This whole thread has been a great read, very interesting, with lots of intelligent comments for and against how the AOS has changed over time. I am also a proud member of AOS, but I agree that it is pricey for us who are not near the Florida location to enjoy more benefits. And the magazines have too many ads. Those are opinions, that are welcomed on OB. Plain and simple. But for some reason, you go above and beyond opinions and become belligerent at fellow members. Those types of comments are not welcome here. :((