Odontocidium Tiger Crow 'Golden Girl' with leaves turning yellow
 

Hi,

I've just gotten into orchids and have two Phalaenopsis that I've been able to get to rebloom without any trouble.

I just purchased a Odontocidium Tiger Crow 'Golden Girl' that was near the end of it's bloom. The orchid person at the place I purchased it told me to wait one month after the blooms dried out before beginning to fertilize, so the first time I'll fertizlize it will be next weekend.

I noticed some black spots on the leaves and read that this indicates that the plant is receiving too much sunlight, so I moved it back from the windows (it still get light, it's just now not directly in the light) several weeks ago.

I also noticed that the puedo blubs were shriveled, which I read means that it's not getting enough water. That website recc. that I allow the pot to sit in a litte bit of water. For the last two waterings, I watered the plant and let the base sit in about 1/4 inch water for two days and then drained the water away.

The brand new psuedo bulb that's coming up looks great, with no shrivels.

Then, somepoint during all of this moving of the plant and watering changes, I noticed that the leaves on the smaller psuedo blubs have started turning yellow, which concerns me. (note that the leaves on the new psuedo blub look great, as do the leaves on the large psuedo blub)

So, am I watering it too much? Is it not getting enough light? (Should I move it again)? Any suggestions?

Lastly, my cat somehow got into the bathroom (where I keep my orchids to insure high humidity) and ate the tips of a few leaves. The ones she ate off of have all turned yellow and died, but I assumed this was due to her munching on them. But now one of the non-munched on leaves is having the same problem, I worry that prehaps the dying of the other leaves may not have been due to her.

Any suggestions and/or advice?

Also, what kind of fertilizer would you recc. for this orchid?

Thank you so much!!

Niki

The loss of leaves on the older pseudobulbs is not a great concern by itself. That is pretty typical of any sympodial plant. I would not let the plant stand in water, though, depending upon the medium it's in.

Odontocidiums have relatively fine roots (especially compared to the phals), and they can suffocate easily if the medium kept saturated, which allows the little air pockets between the particles of the medium to fill with water and stop the air flow. Keeping it evenly moist, but not soggy is what you should seek.

Thank you!

I will make sure not to let it sit in water (I guess I shouldn't have listened to that other orchid website) and to keep it moist, but well drained (like I do with my other two).

Will the older psudeo blubs grow new leaves, or do psuedo blubs die?

Also, any advice as to the best fertilizer to use? And I've read that only distilled or reserve osmosis water should be used. Is this true, or do any of you use filtered water?

Thanks again!

niki

Hi Niki. Older Pbulbs will not grow new leaves. Eventually they will shrivel up and die. The plant will utilize every last drop of nutrition from them first so don't cut them off.

I only use distilled water for a few of my really picky orchids. The rest get tap water including all my Onc. alliance plants. They don't seem to mind at all. Of course tap water varies wildy from city to city, so I guess it just depends on how bad yours is. Don't use water that has been softened. Water softeners add salts to the water. Very bad for chids.

I really don't know much about these orchids. Having said that, does this mean that once a bulb starts losing it's leaves, it will never put out new growth and will never flower again. Or, is it standard for the orchid to lose leaves off the psuedo blubs and then grow new leaves off some of them that aren't so old, while others could dry up and die?

When I purchased this orchid, there were blooms off only one of the puedo blubs (the really large one) but the smaller ones had leaves but no bulbs. (There were three when I purchased). the second largest bulb (about 1/4 the size of the main blub) has leaves that are starting to turn yellow and die. The main bulb has many leaves still green, and one leave that has turned yellow and died.

The smallest bulb (that was there when I purchased) now has no leaves because my cat ate the only leave it had.

There is a fourth blub that just started coming up and it has lots of leaves on it.

I'm just curious what to expect. What is the life of a normal psuedo blub? Do they have to grow new ones between each flowering?

Also, we don't have softened water and our city supposively purifies the water some, so I'm been told that we have good water here. Glad to know it shouldn't be a problem for my orchid. I eventually will get a reserve osmosis system for our kitchen, so once I have that, I'll use it to water. I just wanted to know if I should be buying special water for the plant, so thanks for the info!

Thank you all again so much for all your replies. I am learning so much! (And I'm also feeling relieved that my orchid isn't dying)

Niki

You will only get one set of leaves and one maybe two at most spikes per bulb. Once it has bloomed it will have to grow a new bulb to bloom again. After the plant gets pretty large it may start sending out more than one new growth at a time. I have Odcdm. Mayfair 'Golden Gate' that I have had for years. It was badly sunburned several years ago (got left out in direct sun by my son who was caring for all the orchids at the time), and is just now starting to look better. It took me awhile to figure out that these guys don't like to dry out, but once I got the watering down it started perking up (you'll know they are too dry if the leaves pleat up as they try and emerge from the new growth). Anyway, I have two nice new big Pbulbs with long green leaves. It's in an 8" pot and has probably a dozen Pbulbs in the pot. Some are original and still look pretty good. They lost their leaves long ago but the bulbs themselves still look great. I'm hoping it will bloom someday soon...maybe this fall.

Terri,

Thanks for all the info. I have another question for you...how often do you end up watering yours? I was watering once a week, but it was drying out between waterings (which I read isn't good for them) and I noticed the smaller blubs were looking shriveled (which I read wasn't good) so I'm watching to see what it's looking dryer (but not dried out, which I read was bad)...seems like twice a week is keeping it not dried out, but not waterlogged (I have it someplace where after I water it, the water can run off and not collect).

Also, do you fertilize yours? If so, how often and with what type?

Thanks,

Niki

The big one I mentioned above is planted in CHC/perlite/charcoal. That mix will hold a fair amount of water especially in a large pot. I only water that one once a week, and fertilize weekly with Greencare MSU fertilizer at 125 ppm N.

I have two others that I recently moved to S/H. They have really perked up but I find with them I have to water twice a week. The reservoirs are ususally empty by Wed. or Thurs.

I water everything on Sunday morning. All my chids get a weekly watering with MSU at 125 ppm, and are doing great! It's a great product, but you can only find it online. DynaGro Grow is a good substitute and readily available. I used it for a while but I'm getting better results with the MSU.

Terri,

First of all, what is CHC and S/H?

Secondly, do you use the MSU for tap water or for reverse osmosis?

lastly, thanks for the info. I'll start with the DynaGro while waiting for the MSU to arrive. :)

For re-potting these guys, when do you suggest doing that? My just finished blooming and the leaves are obviously dying. New growth has started on the (fourth) psuedo bulb. I'm not sure how fast these guys grow, and don't know if I should wait until the roots are more crowded before repotting (I've heard orchid roots like to be crowded).

Thanks again!

Niki

Hi! I just recieved this plant online a few weeks ago.

I have mine in sphag moss (re-potted myself), and let it get almost, but not completely dry.

oh.. anyone else here could also help me with an issue i seem to have: this orchid's leaves tend to curl at the end. This also happened to my odontocidium hans isler. Is this due to drying out in between watering, or lack of humidity when it changes environment?

Thanks
Cam

Sorry Niki, I forget not everyone knows what the abbreviations mean. CHC = coconut husk chunks and S/H = semi hydroponic. For more info on S/H visit that forum or First Rays Orchids. Ray carries S/H supplies as well as MSU fert. :)

Terri,

Thanks for the clarification! No problem about the acronyns, I'm used to them. I just haven't learned the orchid lingo yet. :biggrin:

Niki

Hi Niki! Sorry to jump in late! A couple points though, that others haven't responded to:

<I noticed some black spots on the leaves and read that this indicates that the plant is receiving too much sunlight, so I moved it back from the windows (it still get light, it's just now not directly in the light) several weeks ago.>

The black spots are not a result of too much light but from spraying the leaves with water. The Oncidium Class orchids do not like spraying leaves with water of any sort. Just a heads-up. Move the plant back into the higher light. They really like high light (just short of full equator-class sunlight. Ful sun in latitudes north of 45 degrees is OK.

<I also noticed that the puedo blubs were shriveled, which I read means that it's not getting enough water. That website recc. that I allow the pot to sit in a litte bit of water. For the last two waterings, I watered the plant and let the base sit in about 1/4 inch water for two days and then drained the water away. >

As for this, Ray also responded. While you don't want Oncidiums sitting in water for more than 10 minutes max., you also don' want to let then dry down too much either. I find (for me) every 3-4 days watering is fine. Not all the psuedobulbs will be plump, ever. The only plump (smooth) psuedobulbs will be the latest ones to develope and then only while they are developing. The rest of the time they will have pleats up and down along the pseudobulbs. Some of the intergenerics will show a different pattern almost like shrivelling.

<Then, somepoint during all of this moving of the plant and watering changes, I noticed that the leaves on the smaller psuedo blubs have started turning yellow, which concerns me. (note that the leaves on the new psuedo blub look great, as do the leaves on the large psuedo blub)>

If the leaves you are referring to are toward the back of the plant (the part furthest back from the latest bulb) then all is well. Once an orchid starts growing new growths, it often starts dropping old back leaves because they are no longer needed for plant maintenance. A picture might help here with this point.

<Lastly, my cat somehow got into the bathroom (where I keep my orchids to insure high humidity) and ate the tips of a few leaves. The ones she ate off of have all turned yellow and died, but I assumed this was due to her munching on them. But now one of the non-munched on leaves is having the same problem, I worry that prehaps the dying of the other leaves may not have been due to her. >

Do you have any recipes for cooked cat? :evil: Sorry couldn't resist. I don't ave cats because of the plants (I love cats and I love other people's cats even more!) :biggrin:

Ross,

I am kicking myself for letting the plant sit in water overnight (per another website I found specifically for care of Tiger Crow Golden Girl). But, I had it on a plate, and the water level was less than 1/4 inch, so it's not as if the whole pot was sitting in water.

I have just moved it back into full sun.

My camera battery is finally back up...

Here is a close up of the old pseudo blubs. One of the bare bulbs had the leave on it from my mayham maker muncher cat, and the other one turned yellow and fell off all by itself. In this picture you can also see a closeup of the old large psuedo bulb that the flowers came out of....the larger leaves all around this have started to turn yellow and fall off, leaving just the interior.

Niki

Here's a full view of the plant, and I need to retake the pic of the new bulb, because it's too blury.

Niki

Hi Niki! I'm not too experienced with your type of orchid so I can't offer too much advice. :blushing: I just wanted to add that I think the perfect time to repot is now. :) It's done blooming and it gives you a chance to look at the roots to see whats going on. Everyone feels differently about this but I just like to get it done with. Too many bad things have happened to me. Like discovering my orchids had no roots left or very few. I've even repotted some that had good bark on top and pretty much dirt underneath. :( Just my :twocents: Hope that helps a little. :biggrin:

Mine all look like that! I think you are fine.

Ross,

Seriously? Yours all look like that? that's great news!!

So the little bald bulbs are okay?

Do you agree with Sarah that I should repot? Do you repot in a similar type of soil that Terri uses?

I love my cats, but have been saddened by all the plants that I cannot have because of them. We have three cats, but only one is a muncher. She leaves the Phals alone, but loves anything leafy, so she's already killed my bambo plants and is now working on the Odon. We have to keep the bathroom door closed so that she can't munch on it.

She's truely adorable, but is really a mayham maker.

I took a another pic of the new bulb before I saw your post, so I'll include them anyway.

Niki

It looks just fine Niki! Nothing to worry about.

You're going to think I'm a repotting maniac ;) but I agree with Sarah. Now is the perfect time. I just repotted three brand new Phals (2 in spike) from a reputable vendor and found to my dismay that they had merely put new bark on top to spiff them up some and that half the roots were rotted in the center of a pot filled with rotten sphag moss and some bark as old as Moses. :( So, the moral of the story....it never hurts to repot and check out what's going on with the roots. Better to sacrifice flowers for one growing season than the whole plant forever. ;)

Is there anything i should be especially careful with when i repot? Any tricks/advice about how to detangle the roots from the old potting soil? I've heard you're supposed to keep the new soil dry (not water it) for a couple of weeks...do you guys agree with this?

And what size up should I repot to? Should I buy a clear pot so I can see the roots?

Niki

If you can buy clear pots, yes!! they are great. You may not need to pot up though. As you mentionned before, they like to be a bit cramped in their pot. If the roots are healthy, but not completely filling the pot, you can just clean away the old medium, and add fresh stuff. :)

Check the roots though, my odontocidium Tiger Crow 'Golden Girl' 's pseudobulbs aren't as wrinkled. (well the largest one isn't anyways. Could be just that some plants are different though.
good luck :)
Cam

For Phals (in one of my other threads) Cam wrote, "The mushy roots will be kinda hallow, and will pull right off of the long fiberous root center. You will know if the roots are rotten."

Is this the same for the odon? I was examining the soil yesterday, and I could some a few roots. there were long and thin and whitish colored (looking nothing like the Phal roots).

is this normal? When I repot and look for rotten/dead roots, am I looking for the same thing? And, do I cut away all the dead and rotten roots in this one as well?

Thanks!

Niki

yup- they should be white and firm. not mushy. They also should not be able to be pulled off easily.

I find that sometimes my phal roots look a bit on the brown side rather than cream/white, but healthy oncdium roots are usually ivory when new/growing, and will turn a cream colour after a few weeks. Although I grow in moss, so mine do not pick up a brown tint from the bark.

Great! thanks :D

So, what's the difference between potting in all moss (which I think Cam did) vs. the bark/perlite/CHC mixture?

And you all would recc. not to try S/H yet, right? Maybe the next potting? I'm intrigued since I think Terri mentioned that hers really picked up once they were moved to S/H.

And approximately how long do you guys recc. I should wait between pottings? (and what do I look for as an indicator?). I don't really know what "good" medium is supposed to look like. I just didn't like how mine looked. :biggrin:

Niki

I grow mine in moss because I find that medium suits my conditions, though the majority of the people pot theirs in bark mixes. Just like some people perfer semi-hydro to standard potting mixes, I exoerimented with moss and liked it.

How long have you had this plant by the way?

I've had the plant for hardly any time. I got it in May, so I've had maybe 6 or so weeks? I got it on clearance, as it was at the end of it's bloom.

I had my eye on it for quite some time, but since I just got into orchids and wasn't sure if I could get it to rebloom and not kill it, I wasn't too keen on shelling out $55 for it. But, for $20, it was totally worth the risk. :biggrin:

I've had my Phals for almost one year and they didn't lose their leaves, so I started freaking out when this one's leaves started turning yellow, wondering if I was killing it or if it was normal for them to lose their leaves.

And, since, I knew Phals were supposed to be the easiest to care, I'd been concerned about my ability to keep this one is good health since purchasing it.

So, I started reading up on odon care and found (as I'm sure you gleaned) a lot of conlficting/not so good info. online. And then I stumbled upon this board...and horray, instant access to people who actually know what they're doing! :bowing

I guess I really shouldn't be suprised that the people at the speciality shop I purchased my orchid from had no clue. I know that the people at Sur La Table and William Sonoma (for the part) give out incorrect info about cooking equiptment, etc. But I guess I had more faith that the "orchid" experts at these shops actually had some clue (hence the reason I listened to that women who told me not to repot my Phals).

Niki

well I'd say repot the orchid, and see how the roots are. Make sure you use a small bark mixture if you can, a medium/large bark mixture is too large for the root system of this plant.

When you unpot the plant, if you take pictured a post in on this forum, we would be able to tell you about the healht of the plant if you are unsure about the conditions of the roots.

ps. I ALWAYS get nervous when any of my orchids loose a single leaf!!!

read my post on my new blog that I just posted (the link is right below with comment).-- I explain why I use moss over bark, and the pros cons of my experiences with various mediums.

hope this helped :):)

Great answer Terri! I have found that lots of the intergenerics might want to spike on supposedly immature new growths. This can also cause confusion as to what's happening. Pot size may have something to do with it, but I think overall culture and strength of the plant has even more to do with it. Blooming period can change depending on culture, is my point. Not only don't they like to dry out (pleated leaves) but they don't like standing water either! Really hard to balance that equation. Under really "old school" ways of growing these orchids, you would see new growths totally mature long before flower spikes emerge. With newer ways of providing weak, steady nutrients, I have seen repeated spiking on not-fully-matured new growths. Have a couple doing that right now.

Yes, it did! thanks. :) I will definitely take a pic when I replant, and only move to a larger pot of the roots are filling the entirity of the current pot.

I really want to move to S/H for this particular plant, but am now feeling like I should repot in bark first, and then move to S/H after the new root growth starts. Sigh.

I'm scared of using moss. I just see myself not being attentive enough to keep on top of it getting water logged/rotting. But, for whatever reason, S/H doesn't scare me. n:hmm :scratchhead:

Niki

While many people have great sucess with s/h, there are lots of people who find that it does not work. Also, if you don't use the right water, (reverse osmosis etc.), you will start seeing lots of salt build-up and things.

As you have probaby already seen on this forum, there are mainly people who LOVE s/h, and use it for all their plants, or people that stick with regular organic mediums.

But, if bark doesn't work for you, they s/h is a great idea. I have never tried s/h because they do not sell the clay pellets were I live, and I do not want ot pay the shipping fees that would come along with shipping s/h by mail:lol: :lol:

Niki, the Onc alliance plants are more forgiving about being moved to S/H that say Phals in my experience. S/H is great because you just can't over water, but at the same time you always know when it IS time to water. The two I moved to S/H are doing fine. I did wait for new root growth (learned my lesson the hard way there), and the new growth on both is phenomenal. That said some of the older bulbs are looking pretty funky, all wrinkly etc. I think what is happening, with one anyway, is the old roots under the old pbulbs are rotting and that is why the bulbs are getting crinkly. The new growth is also sending out new roots, so the plant isn't in danger of dying. The Odcdm. Wild Cat 'Carmela' looks great, no wrinklies. The Vulys. Ensan Fantasy old growth doesn't look so great but the new growth is huge! You can almost hear them slurping water out of the reservoir.

I don't want to talk you out of S/H. It is an ingenious method.....just pick a plant that wasn't expensive and won't make you cry if it dies. If you can get the plant through the adjustment period I think you'll like it.

When you waited for new growth, did you just check your pot (or if it was clear, watch the sides) to see when new root growth was occuring and then move it? (I'm assuming by "new growth" evreyone means new root grown, and not new pbulb growth...).

I think I'll move them all to new bark/CHC/charcol and get them in better condition, and then move them to S/H later. I'd love to move them to S/H in a month or two if new growth is occuring. Do you think this is too soon to disturb the roots?

I've heard (from Ross, I think) that the old pbulds are supposed to get wrinkly and dried up over time as the plant sucks nutrients out of it...don't have a clue if that's what's happening on yours, or if it is S/H related root rot.

Thanks for all your help!

Niki

When we talk about new root growth we mean newly emerging roots that haven't touched any medium yet. You'll see them emerging from the base of your new growth and sometimes from an old growth.

If you are going to repot into CHC now I would wait until next spring to move them to S/H. 3 months is too short a period to be disturbing the roots again. JMO. Your theory is good though. A move to S/H will be much easier if you start with a healthy plant to begin with.

Okay, so I walked into my bathroom, to find one of the leaves on my new pseudo blubs bent. And, turning black where it bent. Plus, there’s what looks a like a new leaf growing out of the center and it’s also black (but was always this color). Will this eventually turn green, or is the black color indication that it’s dying? And what’s up with the leaf suddenly bending over (not due to cat, as she has been locked out of this room since the last incident). In the first picture, I am pointing to the bent leaf and black leaf.


Also, I gently pulled the plant out of it’s pot (which someone on the board recc) and looked at the roots. I have several view (side, bottom, and top). To my untrained eye, they look to be in very good shape, but crowded. The bark looks good...no mushy, rotting areas. From how crowded it is, would you all agree it’s time to repot?

Are the roots shown in the top view new growth? I can't really tell. Note that the roots you see in the top view are a little misleading as I took the picture after I pulled the plant out. But, before I pulled the plant out, I could see a lot of roots. I'm hoping this picture is enough for those of you with a trained eye to tell me if now would be an okay time to move to S/H.

I’m going to the orchid place tomorrow where I’ll have to choose between using bark vs. Aliflor (the only S/H I can get locally). I like the idea of S/H, but don’t know if my new growth is enough. Since either method requires at 24 hour soak before repotting, should I push the plant a bit more into the pot (to reduce air pockets) so that it's well packed until I repot?

Also, if I can't find Dyno-Gro KLN Root grow at my local place, what would you recc. using in it's place? As for fertilizer. If I can't find MSU fert or Dyno-Gro Grow, what should I use?

Also what size pot should I use for S/H? What size if I go with barK?

Thank you!

Niki

Here's one more close up of the black leaf...it's a better close-up of the new interior of the new pbulb's black leaf.

Oooh that black leaf on the new growth isn't good. Did you get some water inside the new growth when you were watering? Looks like rot to me, but it's kind of hard to tell. Sprinkle a little cinnamon on that area and wait a few days.

That medium is done. I couldn't see any new root growth from your pictures. The most likely place to see new roots is under the new growth. Usually old bulbs don't grow new roots.

I ordered the starter kit from Ray online. It comes with everything you need including PrimeAgra, pots, KLN, and fert. Shipping isn't that bad. I've since ordered a bigger tub of both types of MSU fert, more PrimeAgra and pots.

Product Listing - Semi-Hydroponics Starter Kit

Is the medium done because the pot is too crowded, or because it looks like it's in bad shape? (Just trying to learn what to look for in the future).

Since you don't see any new growth, would you suggest I repot in traditional media and wait until next spring to repot?

I will try sprinkling cinnamon on the dead spot and wish for the best.

If it is rot, will it recover, or will I lose this pbulb? If it doesn't recover, should I pull the rotted part off?

Niki

Because everyone says I should repot my Phals, I am going to. And since I want to try S/H, I'm going to try moving them to S/H and hope for the best.

As for my Onc, people have said that the "medium is done' and I'm a bit nervous about leaving it in the pot since when I lifted it up, some medium fell out and now I'm concerned that there may be air pockets in it.

Plus, I seem to be having difficult with the onc in it's current medium (the rot in my new growth being a great indicator of this).

So, I am also going to try moving that to S/H tomorrow.

Wish me luck, I think I'll need it. At this point, I'm just trying to save my Onc. I bought pics of it into the only orchid grower in my area (he also does S/H) and he said he thinks I should be able to save it. He's moved Onc. to S/H when the roots look like mine with sucess, so I'm going to move it now because I'm nervous about it getting worse. (due to air pockets I may have introduced in the old medium, etc). If the plant were doing well, but had no new growth, I'd move it when the new growth started). But, I feel like each week that goes by, this particular plant gets worse.

So wish me luck

Niki

:goodluck: I'm sure it will be just fine. I'd cut that new leaf off that has rot just to be safe. It could spread to the rest of the bulb if you don't.

What size pot is your Onc. in now? If you can't find any DynaGro products including KLN look for Superthrive. It has one of the two active ingredients in KLN plus some B vitamins. The only fert I've used is either DynaGro Grow or MSU. Can't help you there.

The medium looks "done", used up, because it looks really dark and crumbly to me. Nice fresh bark will be light colored, chunky and not have any "dirt" in it. "Dirt" being the decomposed bark crumblies. The crumblies fill in the air pockets and eventually suffocate the roots.

And so the Saga continues.

Today I go and check on my plant (I put cinnamon on it late last night per Terri's recc) and what do I find???

That the two small pbulbs are completely and totally squishy.

Bad, bad, bad!!

As instructed in another thread, I tried to cut the rot out, but the root went all the way down to the roots. So I cut the plant in half (cutting away all the roots that were rooted and the rotted bulb) and pulled out the interior that was rotted.

In that other thread, the person mentioned the bulbs had always looked a bit purple. I remember asking the lady at the orchid store about this when I purchased, and she said it was normal. but the plant has been doing poorly since I purchased and had been bothering me.

To make a long story short, I looked up when I bought the plant. turns out it was three weeks ago (I thought it was six). It's still under warrenty, so I returned it and got another.

They only had phals and two onc. maxillaria tenufolia, so i got that one. I'll post pictures later...i want all your advice about if my new plant is in good condition or not.

Niki