Sediera/Phalaenopsis japonica Minmaru Hybrids?
 

Are any breeders experimenting with creating more hybrids with Phal japonica? Specifically, I’m interested with the Minmaru type. Phals.net doesn’t list many primary hybrids. I think it’d be awesome to have some cool temperature tolerant micro phal hybrids, if its small size could be inherited. I haven’t grown Minmaru myself, but it’s definitely at the top of my wishlist.

Or are there other species better suited for creating mini phals (small plant size)?

Get to work! I see fame in your future!

I wonder if anybody has made Phal (Vandopirea) Little one using the Minmaru form of Phal (Sedirea) japonica. I have what the hybrid (and both parent species), I would suspect that the standard Sedirea japonica was used. But it's still a modest-sized plant which is nice since the other parent, Phal. hygrochila (Hygrochilus/Vandopsis parishii) is big. Clearly this group of plants is a taxonomic hot mess. Both parents got lumped into Phalaenopsis. I know that monotypic genera tend to get lumped, by why Phalanopsis and not Vanda beats me. DNA must be driving that, certainly not morphology. All 3 look more like Vandas to me. Anyhow, however one wants to classify these, Little One grows cool - on my patio - as do both parents. They're all in spike, so I look forward to showing the family in a month or 6 weeks.

Seems like a lot of trouble to acquire a Minmaru, wait for it to bloom, then make the crosses myself. How well does pollen ship in the mail? Any chance I could ask someone to ship me pollen, then use it on a bunch of random grocery store phals? Guess it’s be years and lots of money and luck before I’d see any results, assuming that the crosses take.

I think that pollen is pretty easy to mail. I wouldn't waste it on grocery store phals. I'm not so sure that Sedirea japonica even breeds well with the "standard Phals". The fact that it is now classified as a "Phal" doesn't change the genetics. I looked it up in Orchidwiz, where I can se the F1 progeny listed. There are a few hybrids that have been done with Phal species, and a very few with hybrids. There's only one with a "standard type" Phal (x philippinensis) ... with a photo, ugly! Most of the registered crosses have been with Vandas or Vanda relatives. Don't waste your time making hybrids with "mutts".

You don't learn unless you try.

True. Worth doing with one's own plants. Don't think that I'd advocate asking someone else for pollen (taking which makes a flower fade) for a "shotgun wedding".

If you asked a month ago I would have had minmaru shima pollen for you (although I do not believe the variegation is inheritable)

of course we r total amateur breeders, but last summer there were about 15 or so attempts made with various standard phals (mostly species) and japonica (standard form) and we had no pollination occur. i know that is a small sample size, but decided it wasn't worth trying anymore!

but then everyone said you couldn't breed with phal mini mark because it is 3N (possibly), yet after years of trying the breeders at Lucke got one to work which they have for sale on their site. soooo, i guess if at first you don't succeed, try try again!

also, yeah, personally i would not breed with grocery phals cause the chances of others wanting the plants beside you is much lower. but if is just for your own curiosity, who is to stop you?! good luck!

Maybe, calling japonica a "Phal" doesn't necessarily make it one...it may not be genetically compatible with the "always been Phalaenopsis" Phals or at least not all sections of them.

for sure, and i wasn't too optimistic about the attempts, especially as more and more failed. and clearly the japonica is morphologically different than the standard species phals. just by looking at the strange coloration of japonica flowers you can tell there are some different genetics going on there! but that's what made me want to try, hehehe

oh well...nothing ventured, nothing gained! but yeah, probably japonica is not going to be on our breeding list anymore unfortunately.

That’s awesome that you were able to attempt so many crosses! Sad to hear that none of them took, but I guess there’s always the possibility that it could happen. Lol, everyone hating on the grocery store phals. I always figured that they must be vigorous growers to be selected for mass production, so I always thought that even without a name, they’d still have a lot to offer. I basically want more of those mini grocery store phals, but even smaller, and more cool tolerant.

howdy! well, i don't want to hijack this thread, but i don't think too many growers hate on the grocery phals (or other orchids). i feel it is the industry that guides those protocols. we will be posting a video in the near future with some thoughts on this exact thing (trying to breed orchids, and some of the challenges dealing with the establishment). but here at the ob the attitude is generally positive towards noids i feel!

I found these on eBay last week, and they were being sold as in bloom, but arrived with the flowers already past their prime. Not sure if the pollen is still viable, but I have some phals in bloom that I could try making crosses with. I also came across an article about some crosses made with these plants to other phals, but wasn’t able to read the whole thing. But the summary did mention some success, but it was very limited. They did get 500+ seedlings from 12 crosses though! I’d love to hear about any other mentions of phal crosses! This Minmaru is even cuter in person, and I’d love to see more crosses made with it, or to find out more about any other hybrids.

Just a moment...

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Here’s an experimental moss pole I made for some cheap phalaenopsis from Grocery Outlet. I thought they’d like being planted in this orientation, and I’m hoping for a nice display if I can’t get them all to bloom again in spring, with all the flowers facing the same direction.

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meh, if it were us we wouldn't mess around with any pollen from those japonicas. they look a bit past, but might be able to get some good pollen for storage. as far as breeding, it is generally best practice to avoid breeding grocery NOIDS. if it is solely for you and maybe some of your friends, then why not? but if you are making hybrids you should know the exact parentage. and it is expensive to make flasks, so probly not worth it unless the parents are good stud plants.