Keeping Cats Away
 

Hello all!

I used to have an account (either here or at OrchidTalk?) years ago, was very active then went to college, etc and my orchids died in my mom's care, as did my activity with the community via life. Anyway new account and newly rekindled love of orchids here!

My biggest issue is: I have exactly one window that is acceptable for growing any sort of plants, let alone orchids at my house. It faces SE. We have a couch with a behind-the-sofa table sitting in front of it, and my cats LOVE to go up there and nibble on my plants! I know Orchids aren't toxic to cats, but is there any way any of you have found that is successful in keeping your furry friends from chewing your orchids to crap? I've been barely keeping alive an irish clover for years now, because it's their favorite, and I'm worried bringing an orchid in will just give them something new to chew (starting with a phal to ease back into things!)

Thank you!

Welcome to this forum - (maybe again!). One grower mentioned using a spray bottle (water) ------ so that if the cat(s) went to that table ----- the spray bottle would come out. And eventually the cats would know to not go up onto that table.

Interestingly - not all cats eat or damage plants and orchids. I have a cat at my place that sleeps on one of my orchids hehe ------ can see at this link here. That was really lucky that this one doesn't eat or chew orchids. Otherwise - I would have likely needed to try the 'spray bottle method'.

I second SouthPark's idea, nothing like a dose of fear to teach those furry jerks. They have to learn what "no" means.

Welcome back. Some cats can't be taught to leave plants alone. The only thing that helps is keeping them out of that room.

Definitely not cruelty to cats. I like cats and dogs and lots of other animals. But just wondering if the cats tend to eat particular orchids on a bench ------ then allow them to eat say once ...... but with a carolina reaper chilli spray on the leaves. Not just hot. But super hot. Otherwise ------ to tone it down a bit ..... birds eye chilli spray on the leaves.

I don’t have a cat, though I love them, but my mother has 3. Not a single one of them seems to have any interest whatsoever in her orchids. I think one knocked a pot over once but it was by accident because it wanted to be petted when my mom was watering the plants and it jumped on the windowsill and knocked a Den over. But I mean, I knocked over more pots than that and I’m no cat :) Grandma has 2, one is also chill and one will only knock the pots over if they are placed on “his” windowsill. So it depends on your cat I think.

I disagree with the spray bottle idea. Cats are not trainable in the same way as dogs (they don't respond to punishment). Although you might think you are teaching them 'no,' you are actually teaching them to fear you. The spray bottle idea sounds good in theory, but in actuality what ends up happening is your cat starts to associate the water being sprayed on their face with your presence. This is because every time you spray the cat in the face with water you are standing right in front of them. Too many times I have seen this strategy backfire on people. They don't usually associate the spray bottle with the action that they are doing (i.e., chewing plants, jumping on counters, etc.), and will probably continue doing it when you're not home... because they only get sprayed with water when you're there.

Have you tried bringing an orchid around your cats? My cat doesn't care about them at all. She does try to eat pretty much every other plant I have, but the orchids don't tempt her. I would try bringing one around your cats first and see what happens. If they do end up chewing it then the best strategy is to put it somewhere out of their reach. Perhaps invest in a grow light if that spot is not very bright.

---------- Post added at 07:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 PM ----------

I believe chillies are toxic to cats.

Probably better not use chilli if it is toxic to cats. On the other hand - if it's super powerful chilli ---- eg. carolina reaper ----- and if cats do react in the way that most people react ----- very quickly ------ then it's possible that they won't be continually eating. They'll probably get a very small sample ------ but powerful sample.

Maybe a protected tub of citronella (eg. protected cotton buds in a container dipped in lots of citronella) - placed in among the plants ------ could work Not sure.

They do sell special kinds of spray that have a small amount of rubbing alcohol in them to deter cats (not sure how I feel about the alcohol being in it, but apparently it dissipates when it's exposed to air, although the smell remains). But, my experience with these things again is that unless you're consistent enough to spray the plant on a regular basis the cats will always end up going back to it if they really want to.

I'm a bit of a crazy cat lady so I've tried all the tricks... the only thing that works is keeping the plant out of reach.

Perhaps keeping all the plants in a cage, reptile habitat (the type with the screens on the sides), wardian case, terrarium, etc. might be the easiest solution.

I have a very well-behaved, well-trained pup who, maybe once a year, twice at most, would go on a small orchid-destroying rampage. I lost a few very good, irreplaceable orchids. Now I keep the orchids on a shelf she cannot reach and, when they are outside for the summer, I accompany her outside. Most of the time, she left them alone so it did take me a little time to take action to keep them out of her reach.

---------- Post added at 02:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 AM ----------

If you want to deter the cat from eating plants with plants...Rue is one of the most bitter herbs and it can grow in a small pot as long as it is kept watered. When we had wild critters eating plants, I planted that and wormwood in the garden and it ended the problem.

I have a hundred or so orchids within reach of my girls. They don't bother them, however, when a past cat took interest, I sprayed the plants with Bitter Apple spray. That helped. I agree with ES and Spinrah, you aren't going to train them. Set up a grow light in a safe place and move your plants. Sorry, not good news.

Whew thanks for all the replies! I got totally tied up at work and forgot to check back in.

After reading all this, I think I'll bring in the orchid and see how it goes. I have 2 cats, and only 1 is really interested in eating plants (I have a wandering jew and some shamrocks that he loves to chew on) - but from reading the replies I'm hopeful that he just doesn't give a care to the orchid. That's why I'm just starting back up with a big box store phal and not something rare/expensive/difficult.

I've tried the spray bottle before, but unfortunately for me, one of my cats is a Maine Coon and he loves the water and thinks it's a reward, and taught the other one not to fear the bottle lol

My house is very small (under 1000 sqft), so unfortunately there is nowhere that our cats can't reach/go - and this is the only window in the entire house that gets acceptable light that I can use! And there's absolutely no space for a grow light setup! lol - hope to someday build a greenhouse and keep my orchids out there, but for now I'm hoping I can get my hobby restarted just with my one little shelf under my window.

---------- Post added at 08:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 AM ----------

This is totally hilarious, and 100% something my cat would do. In fact, he almost killed my wandering jew when I brought it in for the winter doing exactly this! No vanilla orchids for me I guess!

What about setting up a mini greenhouse on the table if you only have a few orchids. IKEA has one, and I'm sure you could improvise.

Be glad for your Maine Coon. I lost mine last October, one of the saddest days of my life. I'd trade all my orchids for another day with him.

my cat hates the smell of limonene (citrus oil), lavender, rosemary, mint really any common strong smelling essential oil. easy to spray over your collection as a deterrent. you can buy orange bathroom spray (pure orange oil) which works pretty good.

maybe some person in your life reached out to you on facebook and put you in an akward spot and 'convinced' you to buy essential oils and you aren't convinced of their healing properties. well now you have something you can use them for. just make sure to dilute heavily before spraying over your plants, and shake well to emulsify.

Could you possibly hang them in the window, instead of on the sill?

Then put some greenery on the sill, or elsewhere it would rather munch on?

I like WaterWitchin's idea of hanging the orchid. Or putting up a high shelf with a simple grow light (there are many on the market that are small and portable - they can just be attached to your shelf with a clip).

And, if all else fails, then I agree with Dollythehun -- forget the orchid... my cat comes first. :)

But, hopefully you'll find that even if your cat is a little curious about the new orchid at first, once they get a good sniff of it and rub their scent on it, they won't bother it again. My cat does smell and say 'hi' to the orchids once in a while by rubbing her face on the leaves, but other than that she's not concerned about them ... one of the reasons I got into orchids is because she lets me have them! :)

You mentioned there is only one window suitable for your orchids, is there a possibility of 'fencing' off the window?
Maybe a moveable scaffold of wood with some clear plastic, just until the cats get the idea the plants can be seen but not touched.

For awhile, I was "babysitting" my grandcat (my son's cat) The only orchids that I had to make sure were where he couldn't get to them (like on a small free-standing plant stand with no landing platform) or leave them outside were those with floppy leaves. Cymbidiums especially. If I slipped up even briefly he could chew them in a nanosecond. He had no interest at all in the stiff-leaved ones like Phals and Catts.

Ya know, I'd rather have just the shredded leaves instead of being Coupled with cat puke. It's a double whammy.

:rofl:

Does anybody have a good furball retching ring tone?

That could work!

Welcome back!!

If you know what the username might have been, or the email address that was associated with it I can check the member database for you, and merge this new account with the old one if I find anything. Send me a PM if you'd like for me to try that for you. :)

Cats are trainable. My squirter bottle has taught cats not to claw furniture and not to bother the plants. I have had cats all my life, and not one of them didn't respond to negative reinforcement. No, they aren't dogs and don't respond like dogs, but they do learn, and some of them are very smart . Dogs respond better to positive reinforcements. A stern voice is usually all they need for correction, but treats work better.
Check this out.
The Savitsky Cats: Super Trained Cats Perform Exciting Routine - America's Got Talent 2018 - YouTube

Spray bottle isn’t negative reinforcement. That would be when you take a negative stimulus away. A spray bottle is punishment. I didn’t say that cats aren’t trainable - they aren’t trainable like dogs. They respond well to positive reinforcement (e.g., being rewarded with treats - I have trained my cats this way), but they aren’t pack animals and punishment doesn’t affect them the same way it affects dogs. Often times humans feel that they have “trained” cats through these techniques but, really, what they’ve done is taught their cats to fear, which often leads to other types of behavioral problems.

Anyways, there are always odd cases where people feel that these techniques work for them, so I’m glad you feel that it has. I’ve had cats all my life too - I still disagree with the method. :)

Those poor cats in the video looked miserable. But I’m glad the humans were entertained. :)

Spinrah, I read your last post and I wanted to reply thoughtfully. I am a cat lover and have owned cats for many years. I have spent enough money on my cats to buy a nice house. I love them dearly. But they are cats.

I understand your thoughts about negative reinforcement, but animals, like people, are individuals. What works for me and my animals, may not work for another person, as the original poster described. I believe it's important that we not be judgmental about how people care for their animals, unless they're clearly being abused. I think that this post is starting to slide into that area, and that troubles me.

Maybe I should clarify - I’m not trying to imply that anyone is abusing their cats. In my opinion, punishment doesn’t work as a form of long term training with cats. In operant conditioning, negative reinforcement is when a negative stimulus is removed, and punishment is when a negative stimulus is applied. The water spray example is an example of punishment. Another example of punishment is talking sternly to your dog when they do something wrong. I’m not making a judgment that anyone is engaging in animal abuse. I’m trying to say that positive reinforcement, in my experience, works much better than punishment as a form of conditioning with cats. This is because dogs are pack animals that learn to “respect” hierarchical structures within the pack. Cats are different and so punishment will work differently with them.

Thank you for your thoughtful words, Dolly. I was trying to figure out as a moderator how to gently handle this and word it, but my think-time has been limited so far today.

What Dolly says ^^ We don't need to start a cat fight here. :biggrin:

I didn't realize I was starting a fight by discussing my thoughts on different styles of operant conditioning. Apologies - I will leave it alone.

With the deepest respect to you Spinrah, this is a text forum. We can't see your face, nor hear the tone of your voice. And your words in print seemed (to me) overly harsh. I apologize if I'm incorrect.

Semantics. I know what I meant by what I said. I stand by my meaning because my experience tells me it is true. Word it any way you want, the results are the same. The behavior was modified to my satisfaction.

Spray bottles can work wonders. For many years our large extended family Thanksgiving dinners always degenerated into heated political discussions. One year I announced in advance I would bring a squirt bottle. I said I would spray in the face anybody who began speaking politics. On that Thangsgiving I showed up with a heavy-duty spray bottle. As we were seated I put it next to my plate. Everybody looked at it. There were no political discussions that year, nor since. I didn't even need to use it.

Now this method I can get behind. :rofl:

estatión seca... I was kinda hoping your post would be about finding a hairball retching app. :biggrin:

And I would agree, D Old Man... part semantics and part pragmatics. Therein lies what Dolly was saying about reading text with no facial or visual clues. We live in such a more digital, text reading society now than even a couple of decades ago, and pragmatics can easily get misread or confused.

We all know the don't discuss politics, sex, money at the workplace or family dinner table... especially estatión seca's. :rofl: Over years as a moderator, here and elsewhere, I've been surprised by some hot-button issues that one wouldn't think of as such, which includes training of animals. Not just dogs vs cats... you should hear the go-rounds with folks who train/break horses.

Our original poster was asking for ideas of ways to have cats and orchids share a space, and we've sort of hijacked the thread into a discussion about how to train cats vs dogs. So let's get back on focus for our OP, and if more discussion is needed, start a thread in off-topic about training methods. :thanx:

:backtotop

Ok ........ let's take a look at the 'danger' or repulsion method again. So super hot chilli (mixed and sprayed onto orchid leaves) might be out of the question - since it was mentioned that chilli is toxic to cats.

Some other unsavoury or bad tasting substance (non-toxic) could be a substitute. The idea is based on cats being clever enough to know that if what they bite or eat has ultra bad taste, or gives them some undesirable experience ------ then they are just smart enough to stay away from whatever it is.

One thing I noticed about my cat ----- an outdoor cat ----- is ----- she stays clear of cane toads. An introduced toad species. She is not afraid of say mice, rats, lizards, geckos, and not even afraid of snakes (which is a bit of a worry - as we do have super deadly snakes here). But cane toads ------ she doesn't touch them at all. She probably had a bad experience with biting a cane toad at one stage - which has toxins - and can potentially kill animals that bite or eat the toad.

That's why I had the carolina reaper chilli spray idea (on the leaves that is) ....... a few chews on carolina reaper-laced leaves ....... could possibly mean a cat will never ever chew or bite those orchid leaves ---- ever again. A 'survival' thing.

"Our original poster was asking for ideas of ways to have cats and orchids share a space, and we've sort of hijacked the thread into a discussion about how to train cats vs dogs. So let's get back on focus for our OP, and if more discussion is needed, start a thread in off-topic about training methods. "


I thought we laid this thread to rest. SP. 😕

What Dolly says SouthPark. Please review my post prior to yours.

WW ----- my post is in absolute alignment with the title of the post, and the topic. It is keeping cats away ------ and ideas for sharing orchid space.

Sure, orchid space can be shared when the cat knows that biting the orchids may result in a very undesirable taste/flavour/outcome. Not a deadly outcome. Just an outcome where a cat (or other animal) just learns by survival instinct.

I saw those recent posts. And so posted accordingly. This is my experience.

I agree with SP that discussing the training of cats is completely in line with the OP's post.

By the way, please note that I am writing this in a very positive tone, in case there's any doubt. :) :) :)

Dolly - I assumed that this thread is for discussions. I provided sensible details - only mentioning a reasonable method, which doesn't involve teaching or training as such. It is just a fire-and-forget method ------- spray something onto the orchid's leaves, and then leave it up to nature and survival instincts to do the rest.