Trying to save 4 Phalaenopsis - Looking for help
 

Hello Everyone, this is Rossella from NYC.
This is my first post and my first orchids: 4 Phalaenopsis that are getting worse and worse. They were a present for Christmas, they came in good shape with a lot of green and healthy leaves and flowers but after one week I noticed that there were a lot of rotten roods so I took them off the pot, checked and cut everything was rotten or dry. One week later the situation didn't get better and there were other rotten roots so I decided to re-do everything again, this time changing also the bark with a new one and clean again the roots as better as possible. Today I noticed that in all 4 pots there was mold that killed almost the remaining roots. So now... I don't know what else do to!! Do you think is there any chance to save them?
For contest, my apartment is very dry and even with the humidifier the humidity is not higher than 30%. The apartment doesn’t have balconies and there are big windows on the south side.
Many thanks for anyone that can help.

Wow what a pity. I'll give you 3 options:

1sr. Try sit them in a vass with water not touching the water though and mist the roots everyday. I can see a free roots coming with 3 roots with 2cm could be report, better bark, avoid humid medium afterwards.

2nd. Wrap in sphagnum moos and keep them moist not dump. Carefully here because the moss could be tricky sometime and if does not dry fast creates more damage than good.

3rd. Place them in bark and mist the roots every day. The challenge is to keep them firm, maybe sitting on a site could work.

In anycase cut the flower spike to avoid waisting energy, and place them in a no too bright but light place and keep the root area going from "moist to air dry" in order to activate the grow.

Hope this help.

They are in a very poor state unfortunately.
They are certainly still in a salvageable state but it will take years to regrow the lost roots and the plants hardly have any places to produce new roots so it will be a very long mission if you choose it. The state they are in I don't think they would last potted so your only option is to spray them daily and keep them in a vase or cup or try semi hydro. Semi hydro in theory keeps the clay pebbles moist but not wet - in some climates the pebbles might still dry too much in which case a bit of moss or stones need to be added ontop but at least you won't have to look after them as much, just fill up the reservoir as it evaporates.

They look healthy aside from the lack of roots. I suspect the roots that were removed were actually functional (just damaged). Even if roots have rotten sections, if it’s not complete mush, it can still work.

I’d buy some Kelpmax to stimulate rooting. Soak the plants in it overnight and repot them. Keep them warm (70+ Degrees Fahrenheit ), bright, and humid. Stake them so they don’t wiggle in the pots. To maintain humidity, place them pot and all in a clear sided covered container or in something like a clear plastic bag with a few holes for ventilation. Leave the spikes on, odds are the remaining buds will blast, but the plant can use the resources in the spike to power root regeneration.

If you decide not to go the Kelpmax route, you can still pot them up as described. I like to use a 5 parts bark, 1 part charcoal, and 1 part perlite for mine in clear plastic slotted pots, but there are lots of equally viable options. If you do decide to go the Kelpmax route, you can temporarily unpot them for the soak.

Based on the vegetative portions, these plants have potential to make a relatively quick recovery (3 months for initial root formation and possibly with a viable enough root system to leave the “humidity tent” in 6 months).

Welcome to the Orchid Board!

I bet you cut off live roots. What did they look like? I don't ever cut off roots because I usually can't be certain they're dead.

There is a great thread here for learning to grow Phals. From the left yellow menu choose Forums then Beginners. Look near the top for the sticky thread The Phal abuse stops here.

My first time repotting an orchid I cut off a lot of viable roots. It can be hard to tell for a beginner, but usually they are fine unless they are complete mush. I’m still a beginner, but I feel like I’m finally getting the hang of it.. it took quite a few dead orchids though to learn... unfortunately.

Me too! I butchered most of mine when I repotted for the first time. Orchids have a reputation for being delicate, but I’ve found hybrid Phalaenopsis in particular can be very resilient. I’ve had Phals in worse shape recover and bloom within two years.

This could be fish-tank case ...... or similar ..... such as having the plants inside a humidity tank, with a little bit of ventilation, and keeping the temperature nice and warm (but not so warm as to harm the plants). And put lots of wet sphagnum pots inside the tank. The plants can just stay bare-root in the tank ...... actually no-root .... since there are not much or no roots left on them at the moment.

Provide medium light levels (no direct sun etc). And can then see if the orchids will start growing new roots.

I agree about cutting off all the flower spikes. And allow the orchids to try sprout new roots.

More often than not a root is dead, not alive.

One can see the brownness on the stem where the rot reached. Stop trying to make people feel guilty about having cut off completely dead roots. Won't achieve anything as he can't glue the dead roots back on now can he.

Roots are very sensitive and once they become hollow they are dead. No ifs or buts or maybe or but no hollow = dead!

The rot already spread further than the roots as one can see on the picture.

Touching them, they were completely empty and covered only by a sort of squashy and broken brown/black film. At the first try, I just cut those but after one week also the others that had attached semi-rotten part, have completely rotted as well :( I'm sure that I did something wrong considering the actual situation. Just trying to save as much as possible now

---------- Post added at 12:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 PM ----------

Thanks all guys for the replies and suggestions. Everything is extremely helpful since I'm a beginner in the orchids world.

I read carefully all your suggestions and also different posts around the forum and the web. Actually, I'm quite scared to put the plant inside a closed clear plastic bag or use sphagnum moos because I'm worried to get again mold and don't be able to manage/recognize in time/correctly the situation.

Do you think guys that trying to put the plants over the bark and moist them daily is useless due the situation? I bought clear plastic saucers to put at the base of the clear plastic pot in case add water there could help. I have also some LECA pebbles that I was thinking add to the base of the pot to help humidity.
What do you think?

I feel also very sorry to cut the spikes since they seem "healthy" but I get your point and I'll do it if this can help.

This seems to me the manageable way for a beginner but not sure if could make sense or not here

I don't have any constructive advice as I am just a beginner myself, but I just wanted to say - don't be too hard on yourself! It happens, and the important thing is you're doing your best and trying to learn. Most people just throw their orchids away! Plus, it very well could be that you only cut off dead roots, we are just speculating, but we may be wrong.

Alice many thanks. I'm looking for this Keplmax on Amazon but I'm not finding so much. Actually, I found "KELPMAX Liquid Seaweed Concentrate (4 Liters)" at 135 USD but I don't feel like to invest so much right now :). I found something called "Organic Liquid Seaweed and Kelp Fertilizer Supplement by Bloom City, (8 oz) Concentrated", do you happen to know if could be a comparable?

Thanks again.

One option is to put a couple of plants in a vase - and only put the base of the stem in water. And then see if roots will grow out from the base of the stem.

Another option is to put a couple of plants in a humidity container (see-through tub with a little bit of ventilation).

The main problem right now is no roots, which prevents the orchid from getting water into it, that can result in the orchid just drying up.

Unless there is adequate life support ------ to slow the dehydration, to buy time for the orchid in hopefully producing more roots, or unless the orchid happens to sprout roots very soon --- then it could be a one-way ticket for all these orchids.

And if these orchids recover ----- then we can also begin to establish a suitable watering schedule or system.

All the best with these orchids.

Don't worry we all have done it .. haha
Cut the spike and put them in flower or in a vase with moss and water. Like cut flowers. They last forever.

I think the bark is the must safety way if you have doubts , but here is a IU test and then it end up in bark with all those roost (for inspiration)

Cheers

WOW! Congrats! How was the starting point? no roots as well? Also, what did you put as bed for the orchid in the first picture? Sphagnum?

It looks like it’s on back order: KelpMax Superior Plant Growth Stimulant › First Rays LLC

I wouldn’t pay that price on Amazon either ;) I’ve rehabbed many Phalaenopsis without it, but it’s nice to have in the arsenal.

Some look like they still have a few roots stubs on the base. I’ve even just potted some of my near rootless Phals up in bark, staked them, and watered whenever the bark was dry. It took awhile and the leaves suffered from dehydration until the new roots grew in, but they recovered.

There are lots of different ways to grow Phals. I’ve had the best luck, when I set them up to minimize disturbance. If I’m messing with the plant: moving it, inadvertently bumping developing root buds, recovery proceeds much slower or halts altogether so I pot them up. If I add a clear plastic bag overtop with slits cut for ventilation, the leaves fair better: less water loss from transpiration.

Direct or through Amazon, I'm still the shipper. And yes, it's much cheaper to order direct.

It is backordered on my website and currently unavailable on Amazon because I am battling with my supplier to get bottles!

Normally, I place a bulk order and it arrives in 3-4 days. It's now over 2 weeks and the back-orders are building.

Supposedly my order is to be delivered today, meaning I'll be able to ship on Monday. We'll have to wait and see, as they've been promising shipment since last Monday, but as that didn't happen - nor any of the other "it'll go out today" promises I've gotten - but I at least have an overnight delivery tracking number.

Hi!
It is a plastic bottle with holes in the bottom on top of Sphagnum moss but not directly touching it, it only absorbs moisture and the truth is that I started with a stem and 2 very rotten roots trying to save what was there, but in the end I cut it and eliminated everything , and leave only the crowns, in the bottle they have been until 2 roots came out and I turned it to 100% pine bark spraying the roots every two days and watering every 7 days. Progress is very slow, several months or so. But without hormones, placed in a medium bright place, not very brighter up to see new roots.
I have good progress with the roots of all Phals and always using 80% pine bark and a bit of charcoal and moss, but I think the biggest helping factor is my environment.

Cheers!

If the leaves do start shrivelling at some fairly fast rate, then a big version of something like this will help .....

eg. a big version of saxon mini green-house or equivalent (eg. fish-tank, see-through plastic tub etc).

Leave some gaps for ventilation ..... and keep a warm temperature, and medium lighting level (with no direct sun).

Sphagnum moss can even be placed inside the tub ----- with no need for the moss coming into contact with the plant.

Condensation on all the walls building up quickly (once the cover is used) will be a good sign to look for ----- an indicator of nice humidity.

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...1&d=1610247817

And - a possible setup to help out ......

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...1&d=1610253990

Phalaenopsis (and many other orchid) roots are bright green when new. As they grow tips remain green, and the part back from the tip turns white or silver. The tissue conducting water is thin, like a thread, running through the center of the white cylinder. The white or silver cylinder consists of many layers of dying or dead cells, and is called velamen. It functions as a sponge to hold water, and conduct it to the threadlike root. Over time the velamen turns brownish and papery, and may be stripped from the central root core. But - that central root core is still alive, and the old velamen is still conducting water. Don't cut off old roots. Even lacking velamen those thin cores can take up water.

Edit: If you save your plants, they will still probably lose most of their leaves before growing new roots. Phals are good at preserving water by sacrificing leaves. New leaves will be very small until roots form. The plant will gradually enlarge until it's big enough to bloom again. It will likely be 3 or 4 more years before you see flowers on these plants. Survival is not assured, and plants might die after a year or more. You will feel more upset than now. So that you don't become discouraged and give up on orchids, I might suggest you throw these away and begin with healthy plants.