Cattleya warscewiczii (C. gigas) with flowers 12 in. tall ... a myth , or reality ??
 

Hi Cattleya growers :waving

I would love to see a photograph of a flower of C. warscewiczii exhibiting a height of 12 inches , with
a measuring tape held to the flower ...

*Anyone* ??

The eminent nurseryman A.A. Chadwick writes about such plants , and a grower from Colombia also does.

So then ... if such plants really exist , there must be meaningful photographs somewhere , right ... :)

It's probably not unusual to get that size flowers. There was one time a year or so ago, I went to an orchid show and saw a big catt flower there. It was huge for my standards, and not surprised if it was around the 30 cm across.

Because I don't get to see massive flowers before, it definitely allowed me to see what was actually possible among the catts ........ the big catts that is.

I didn't actually think of looking up online any info about what the biggest size catt flower is ----- rough dimensions that is.

But I can say that after seeing the big catt flower that I saw ------ I did actually think about beginning to find names of huge-flower catts hahaha. That big one really got my attention. It was much bigger than my biggest ones hehehe. I just hadn't got around to finding biggest flowers. But my plan sometime in the future is to look for a catt with such huge flower hehe. This is only after seeing what is actually possible with catts.

These days, I'm not surprised about unseen 'gems' that local and international growers may have in their growing area. So many impressive orchids that we wouldn't know that somebody - somewhere - anywhere - perhaps nearby - is growing ----- until they somehow reveal it hehe.

That catt flower I saw might not necessarily been as big as 30 cm ........ and just saying it certainly caught my attention with the size of it. It was big in my books!

Back to the topic ----- about measurements. I do agree that it is surprising that there are not too many images on the internet showing measurements (with rulers) heheh. Interesting. But there are databases - such as AOS ----- where flower widths should be available. A nice thing would be access to that database to search for a cattleya having the largest ever recorded flower width.

For about a week I was not here ... and now visiting again , I had hope that there were perhaps 3 to 5 new threads
showing *12in Cattleya flowers* with a measuring tape held to them , but ... NOTHING , NADA.

And so I hang my head and come back to my small 8-in C. warscewicziis , C. lüddemannianas , C. hardyanas , thinking that *12in Cattleya flowers* are just a myth fuelled by hearsay among Cattleya aficionados ...

And as much as I appreciate and respect Mr. South Park's observations and thoughts and suggestions (thank you !!) ... no photo / no measuring tape = no valid proof (wry smile) ...

No, the Chadwick's are a very high quality nursery. If they say it's true, I believe them. Yours is a question for one of the Cattleya facebook groups.

Maybe you should just write to Chadwick's and ask for pictures with a ruler alongside? The may just humor the request!

I had time on my hands ...... and used a bit of time to search for images on the internet of catt orchid flowers with a ruler next to it. Surprising to find just 1! One pic with catt orchid flower with ruler. A case of rarer than generic hens teeth.

It's possible that biggest size of flower isn't a main focus for catt growers in general. But there certainly will be some growers wanting to grow biggest flowers for enjoyment and records.

A big complaint of botanist friends is that people send them photos of plants with nothing to measure. They beg people always to take one more photo with a ruler next to the plant or flower.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they take this sort of measurements when a plant is awarded? If you can't find photos, perhaps it is possible to find information about the flower size of awarded plants, and maybe there are a few giants among them!

Camille - they do indeed include span measurements with awards. If AOS has a computer database of awards, and if we were able to tap into it, then we should be able to find the biggest recorded span from say the awarded catt type orchids area ------- which isn't focusing on breaking of records for size, but will be good information to work with.

I'd be happy with 8 inch flowers so then ... if such plants really exist , there must be meaningful photographs somewhere , right ...
Considering Southpark only found one picture in his search..
Lets see some pictures, no measuring tape = no valid proof.

Of the 146 awards documented in OrchidWiz 7.0, the largest having size documented was 22 cm top to bottom.

Thanks for your help Ray! This is nice now that we have numbers, or a number to work with. To start off with.

An extra say 8 cm would certainly be do-able. We've seen giant pumpkins and things. So up to 30 cm or more flower is not a far fetching scenario.

They said it was big. They didn’t say it was good...

Since you brought up pumpkins... a few years ago, I sponsored a “giant” pumpkin grower. He decided to start by trying KelpMax on his grandson’s efforts.

1 ounce per gallon, applied once per week (8 times my recommendation) yielded pumpkins that weighed about 30% more than the “gauge” weight, calculated from the physical dimensions.

I’m quite sure something similar can be done with orchids, but now that I am limited in my scope of growing, it’ll be someone else that’ll have to punch the envelope.

I don't think those giant punkins taste good, either.

ES ------ don't judge a book by its big cover. But - I think you could be right about that.

Hi folks , this thread is about a Cattleya species (C.warscewiczii) , not about hybrids bred for size.

I have a rather sensitive personality:biggrin: -this is why I love Stanhopea and Cattleya flowers- and I feel a bit touched
to be considered the 'iffy one' here ...

I will hereinafter try to make my case (smile) ...
------------------------------------

I have just measured a blooming C. labiata , and the flowers are 6 in. tall , the pseudobulb+leaf are 14 in. tall , and
the diameter of the flower stalk is a quarter inch -- just a normal Cattleya plant.

If there were Cattleya flowers 12 in tall , i.e. double in size to my normal flowers as mentioned above , it is safe to assume that it's pseudobulb+leaf dimensions are *more than double* the size of a normal Cattleya plant ...

Hence , a Cattleya plant to be able to hold (several !!) flowers 12 in. tall should be expected to have a vegetative
height of 2 and a half feet , and the flower stalk would be thick like your thumb ... -- And the petals would need
to have something similar to a 'fish bone spine' to hold them straight ...

And ... if you would photograph this giant Cattleya plant including it's 12 in. flowers , the image would look just like my normal Cattleya plant mentioned above -- unless you do hold a measuring tape to it (smile) ...

I have a 12” stick that I use. Any object if a known dimension will work

Also, I am confused about the hypothesis you are trying to prove? Are you implying that the grower who made this claim was lying or that it is impossible according to physics for this to occur?

I ask by because I don’t want to misdirect the thread with my response.

I do not know this grower so I have know idea if they would use puffery and exaggeration

I have a FEW Catt. Orchids that flower in the excess of 7” and one or two that probably are 8”. When a more developed colony I would not be shocked to see those another 1” bigger. My only point here is that I have no doubt that it is both possible and likely that 12” flowers on orchids exist. Sheesh, I have epiphyllum that flower over 14”!

So if it is about the grower, I dunno. If the flower, certainly possible.

True DC ----- it's not like 30 cm span is something so large that totally excludes believability.

If somebody said 50 cm span for this kind of orchid, then I would then say 'yeah ...... right'.

Thank you.

No , I am not bad-mouthing anybody.

I just do not believe that a flower as large as 12 in. tall (30 cms) is possible to be produced by C. warscewiczii or any natural Cattleya species plants ... And not even by a Cattleya hybrid plant ...

And whoever knows better , please show me conclusively (smile).
And this is about 12 in. tall , not 8 in. or 9 in. tall ... And it is about Cattleya flowers , not Epidendrum ...

It might be that it is hearsay , when exaggerated stories are told from mouth to mouth and the flowers get ever larger.

-- Case closed --

I did find some information in a french forum where the OP mentions that the flowers on his plant took 3 days unfurl to 30cm, and that the pbulb carrying the flowers is 10cm tall. There are photos of the plant, but nothing to indicate scale.

He also explains that optimal growing conditions and a limited number of buds per spike are necessary if you want to have giant flowers. However, the texture/substance of these giant flowers is extremely poor and they wilt very quickly. This is not desireable, and for this reason many people prefer plants that have a flower size in the 18-23cm range, because that's where you get the highest quality flowers...

Nice information Camille. I agree that 1 bud with no other ones on the spike can lead to the biggest size flowers ..... channelling everything into 1 bud.

The largest awarded flower for this species in the AOS database is 21cm wide

I'll share an anecdote about this species two years ago during the flowering season here in Medellin(April-May); I attended a flea market in the center of the city. Upon examining the boxes of orchids that the old-timers were selling, I ran into the largest specimen of warscewiczii I had ever seen. It was just towering out of the box, I looked around to see if anyone by chance had a measuring tape, and luckily a fellow checking out some cacti had one attached to his belt. The plant measured 23cm wide I quickly snapped a pic and told the seller to hold it for me while I ran to the ATM. Unfortunately, when I got back, his buddy had sold it:shock:. The moral of the story, always have cash in hand, lol. At least I have a pic for whatever that is worth.

YYSR ------ nice work on being able to get a pic!

Rojas- that is both amazing and tragic.

When my wife and I (used to) go to flea markets and garage sales I always tucked a 50 or 100 in my sock to “forget” about because one time something similar happened to me!!! I was broken but I was a mistake you only make once lol