Brassavola nodosa dropped all of its buds
 

I bought this small division earlier this year and it has since then grown two new pseudobulbs. A few weeks ago it started spiking and I was soooo excited. Just this week, each bud suddenly started to wilt, yellow and eventually fall off. They were still pretty small, about 1 cm long. Another spike is forming on the other pseudobulb and I am hoping to not repeat this.

For those growing nodosa, what could've happened??

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Growing it very warm under LEDs with heat pad under the pot.

It is possible that the extra heat was enough of an environmental change to make the buds blast. B. nodosa doesn't need to grow that warm. (I put mine in the greenhouse for the winter, but once it starts to spike, in the early summer, it goes onto my patio - where it gets some cool nights. Even now, while I think nights are unpleasantly warm (like 71-72 deg F/22 deg /C) by Texas standards I think that's still pretty cool. They won't go back into the GH until they stop blooming (they're still putting out new spikes) or nights get below 60 deg F/15 deg C or so whichever comes first. (Days are running 85 deg F /29 deg C to 90 deg F (32 deg C) and I expect that weather pattern to hold for awhile even as nights cool a bit. So the plant might be happier if somewhat cooler.

Does pot have drainage holes? I'm new to these but 2 recent buys from sev months ago are spiking. Placed under lights and watered 3x/wk but roots must dry out bet. waterings. They're potted in gravel from the grower,a new medium for me to work with,so I know a dry cycle will occur. Bottom heat unnecessary.

I don't grow nodosa ------ and haven't grown with artificial lights before. So that's awesome how you grow with LEDs.

Assuming the heat pad is working just fine, and temperatures change gradually and smoothly, or just kept relatively constant ------ then maybe could turn attention to the temperature of leaves and/or buds due to the LED.

Do the LED lights do a 'soft start' and a 'soft stop'?

I was thinking that it would probably be nice to have a system that slowly and gradually ramps the light level up (or down) ------- to slow down the temperature changes in leaves/buds etc.

I don't ramp up / ramp down my LED's but when I used to keep planted fish tanks I did. You can find these kind of ramp up timers for LED lights in the fish world. Not sure if there is a benefit for orchids or if its been tested. Interesting topic

CH ...... true! For orchids, and the distance of the light from the plant ----- the ramping might not be necessary. Thanks for mentioning you used to do that with planted fish tanks! Very interesting!

i grow these in full sun for the morning to about 1 and then BRIGHT shade until dusk...they get COOKED and are fine so the total heat might not be the issue but the change and relative shock perhaps?

you mentioned it was earlier this year that you got it, how long exactly?

I grew under lights for many years. There's no need for that.

---------- Post added at 09:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 PM ----------

I saw this thread earlier today and have been wondering about the bud drop. I honestly can't think of a reason for it to drop buds once initiated.

I would only be guessing... unnoticed extreme heat; bugs; spider mites; do thrips do this? I think you might have them in Austin.

Heat would not bother this one, plus its grown inside!

Could certainly be heat-related ES, such as unnoticed extreme heat. A heat pad is being used too. Temperature monitoring both above the leca, and also down in the depths of the leca could provide some details for looking into.

Also could look into rate of change between two significantly different temperatures, which could show up in monitored temperature readings (above the pot and also inside the leca) - maybe readings every 5 mins could be enough.

Appreciate everyone's thoughts on this.

LEDs and bottom heat are turned off at the same time each night, but I can't imagine it would be too drastic of a temperature shock, seeing that the bottom heat and LEDs raise the temperature of the whole plant by roughly 10F or less than room temp. Monitoring temperature using an infrared heat gun, the temperature of the leaf tips and inside the s/h hole never get hotter than 85.

Something I was thinking that might be the problem is maybe the spike got too close to the LEDs?

Here's a pic in the wild:

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The panel runs pretty cool, and again using a temp gun, the tip of the spike is no hotter than 85. But maybe that combined with it being on the top shelf and closest to the ceiling fan that I have running on low 24/7 desiccated the buds?

Carefully inspecting I don't see any signs of buggers unless they are really good at hiding.

I was also slightly hoping someone would say that the plant might just be too small to have a proper bloom. I got this plant around March of this year and it came as a 3 leaf division. I'm new to brassavolas but I didnt really expect it to spike this year.

VM ----- not sure if it could be linked, but could also factor-in a rate of temperature change between two temperatures. A slow enough change is usually ok. DC and/or ES touched on that scenario already.

That's possible too VM. Anyway, your orchid is looking great.

I was thinking about heat if the spike got right up against the lights, but seeing your setup, that is not what happened. I more and more wonder about thrips. They are so small they can be hard to see.

I guess I just don't want to believe it's thrips because many make it out to be such a death sentence and I've never dealt with them before, but it just might be exactly the problem.

A few weeks ago my vanda who lives in the same room flowered and had about 10 buds but only 4 of them opened. The rest turned yellow and fell off. I didn't think too much about it and for weeks now haven't seen noticeable damage to any of the remaining flowers.

However...just now I gently blew on a vanda flower and saw a single very thrip-looking bug come crawling out. :(

Let's say I've accepted this fate, where do I start?

I've looked through a few posts on this board about dealing with thrips and there's pretty mix results with some people saying that insecticides work while others say they are pretty resistant to them.

I only have neem oil on hand right now and feel safe about using that indoors around my pets because I have used it before on houseplants. Will neem oil deal with thrips? I have a few plants in bud right now that I would really hope to not lose. Is it a good idea to spray every single plant?

Especially with that Vanda story, which is perfect for thrips....

I've read they are endemic in the Austin area, so you won't be able to get rid of them. Vanda growers I know say only the spikes are at risk. They spray developing spikes weekly from early on with a blast from an aerosol can of a general contact insecticide.

Read this before you nuke the collection! https://staugorchidsociety.org/PDF/T...ySueBottom.pdf

---------- Post added at 08:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------

Yep, they're here! My Cyrtopodiums are covered with them in the spring, but they grow and bloom just fine. The thrips disappear around the same time every summer whether I spray or not, so this year I only sprayed once to knock 'em back and I might not even spray next year. I haven't found one on my Cattleyas, not sure why!

great resource, thank you!

I went out and bought a general rose and flower insecticide containing cyfluthrin yesterday. I know that it is probably safe and widely used but I got a bit nervous using it indoors..:lol:

so instead made a dilute dish soap and warm water mixture to spray the plant with and poured the remaining into the pot to flush the media. Rinsed it afterwards. Will repeat this weekly and see if the new spike makes it.

Now knowing they're endemic to this area, I'm going to try to just treat where it is needed and leave them be if they aren't causing any trouble. So far they leave my leaves and roots alone.

I read that they have an affinity towards vandas, cattleya types, and dendrobiums. Maybe this is a better question to ask in the pests section, but I have a bulbo rothschildianum spiking that is probably going to be the highlight of my adult life so far. Wondering if I should be proactive and treat the bud while it's growing or trust that they will leave them alone?

Having the tragedy of buds opening with brown around the edges from thrips, I would be inclined to treat at the bud stage. Others may have other experience... I haven't had much issue with them on Paphs. But Catts and Cyms, big time.

Did you give it a blood offering? Perhaps your plant wants something more than just water, sun, and air circulation. My nodosa finally set low spikes this year, after failing to bloom for six years, after I accidentally stabbed my hand on its neighbor's mount hanger. I'm drawing the line at an accidental blood offering - I'm not performing a voodoo ritual.

In all seriousness, pests, mechanical shock or a sudden change in ambient conditions could have caused the plant to drop its buds. Could have also been exposure to a source of Ethylene gas or even getting your skin's oils on the buds. I've had plants that dropped their buds because I put my hands on them. Best thing to do is wait for the next spike and see what happens.

Good call on that one. If it becomes a pattern ------ then get them before they strike next time.

Dendrobium beetles destroyed 3 spikes of my Den. discolor this season. They didn't touch the remaining spikes after carbaryl was sprayed onto the remaining spikes.

Update

ES called it :bowing It definitely was thrips or at least some sort of other bud eating pest. After spraying down the entire plant with spinosad and giving the developing spike a squirt every week, I now have blooms :D

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They are not the prettiest flowers. I suspected the thrip civilization got some damage in before their demise. But I am still very thankful and happy about these. They smell like bar soap. Just wonderful.

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Additionally, the first spike which dropped all of its buds surprised me by developing another bud and bloomed as well :wtg:

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Wonderful! Especially, enjoy their fragrance in the evening, when it is at its best. (turn the lights down low...)