Bllra. Tahoma Glacier with Terrible Leaves
 

This orchid was transferred to SH very late fall of 2018. Here it is in February 2019 in bloom.

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...cture12888.jpg

It went outside all summer, got eaten by a few grasshoppers now and then, and I noticed the leaves were getting some strange marking/coloration on them. I have two Aliceara that were starting to look similar. (Beallara Aliceara, Tomato Tomahto) And of course a few Zygo and Onc that got some crappy leaves happening, but these didn't look the same.

Fast forward to the winter months. Brought everything inside, under lights. Minimum temp 65-68F Max 74F. Average humidity 48-50% RO water, KLite weakly. Most of the older Pbulbs either dropped their leaves or I cut them off. Now the newer growths are getting the same weirdness as the older ones had. Both Aliceara are doing the same.
Is this too much light? What the heck is going on? Guesses? Opinions? Questions?

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...BllraTG_1_.JPG
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...BllraTG_5_.JPG
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...BllraTG_4_.JPG
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...BllraTG_3_.JPG
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...BllraTG_2_.JPG

I have no idea what’s going on. I’d be surprised if it is due to light. I’ve placed Oncidium types like these in areas getting too much light and never saw anything like this. How are the roots doing? I can’t help wondering if it’s something tied to the semi-hydroponic growing?

I'd also be surprised if it's light. It's sitting by some paphs and phrags, one of which is more light sensitive by far. Some Onc, a couple of mounted Phals.

Roots are fine. I repotted it when I brought it inside for winter, since I was already seeing the problem on older leaves. Basically fresh LECA and a different pot (glass). I repotted quite a few, and nothing else looks like this. I've not seen it before either.

My Miltassia has the same pattern on it, similar to the ones I see in Cymbs.
I've read somewhere it's a virus but I really don't know.

Maybe a fungicide might help?

In my plant I tried a fungicide and it didn't work.
Anyway, after 2 years it didn't spread to any other plants (not in the same location but the watering tools are common).

Just as a test on a single plant - test only - we could see what happens if k-lite is applied for a while - as usual. But on some occasions during the month, apply a regular cal-mag treatment, and see if there are any improvements with the situation.

This is certainly hoping it's not virus-related (re: rbarata).

Since the other types of orchids aren't showing these symptoms, then it might well not be a chemical deficiency. But -hard to say how much supplements this type of orchid is taking in.

Yes, I certainly hope not a virus. But I've not seen a virus that appears like this. And I find it interesting that it's only on the three Beallara/Aliceara which have the same issue.

My first thought was they almost seemed chlorotic. So yes, that may be a place to start. Was waiting to see if someone would put out that theory. (Not wanting to put suggestions in first.) I think I'll try that first. A CalMag supplement would be most easy and not harmful to experiment with.

If you're using a reasonable amount of K-Lite, cal-mag is unnecessary and may, indeed, be harmful if over-applied. If anything, I'd try Epsom Salts, first, but I seriously doubt that is a nutritional issue.

My first thought was guignardia/phyllosticta, but a proper fungicide ought to take care of that. (By "taking care of", I mean stop the spread, not repair the damage.) I suppose it could be bacterial - and the reason a fungicide wouldn't touch it - but that doesn't look like any bacterial infection I've seen. Next, I'm afraid I'd have to thing "virus" as well.

Were the plants that have succumbed to this exposed to any particular stress before this happened?

EDIT: It vaguely reminds me of mite damage, or the so-called "microfungus" that plagued phal growers some time back.

Yes, a reasonable amount of KLite. It reminds me most of cercospora that gets on soybean leaves. Or the look of corn rust. No idea if orchids can get it, haven't looked at how to treat it. Perhaps guignardia/phyllosticta. The weird thing is the leaves just slowly turn yellow, develop that rusty haze that you see over the leave, starting at the tip, moving down. Never blisters, pustules, soft spots. No pests around. Haven't treated with anything yet other than a few doses of Innocur that everything gets.

It was a long hot VERY moist and humid summer. So it's always stressful when they're outside. It gets hotter here for probably 6-8 weeks in the summer than most orchids I have should be in. Now in winter, most are on the low end of temp range, with much lower humidity. We had so much rain this year, I was seeing lots of problems starting.

And the only three that are showing this are all Beallara. Never been next to each other (all three separated but on different racks). It started in early spring. Were it a virus, wouldn't it have shown up on something else by now?

Meanwhile, how about using Physan 20, with a light kicker of Epsom salts? I think I definitely need something systemic.

I agree with Ray that it has the look of spider mite damage, possibly compounded by a fungal condition.

Y'all this Physan 20 is okay? I've only used a fungicide once or twice on an orchid.

Yes, I see the look of spider mites, but never have found any. :( Should I give them a treatment regardless? Poison of choice? Like pick yer poison, Pilgrim? :biggrin:

I use Physan on orchids, doesn't seem to do any harm. (How much good it does not sure either) It works on algae, like cleaning up the greenhouse floor.

Physan is a topical treatment only, so will not affect internal infections.

If your want to rule out virus, might be worth getting the plants tested... Critter Creek Laboratories is not terribly expensive (cost is actually about the same as the Agdia test kits, you just have to wait a bit for the results)

Nah, I would trash em if it’s a virus. So a systematic fungicide recommendation please?

But how to tell if something is a virus without testing? One of the San Diego County OS members, who has done a lot of work with virus testing, did a "virus identification study", showing photographs to a number of very knowledgeable people, to guess which had virus and which didn't (flowers and/or leaves). The results for successful guesses? What would be expected by chance, or a bit worse. There are makings that look like virus on plants that aren't, and clean-looking plants that that have it.

The takeaway... if a plant isn't doing well and it's not deeply loved, not worth fighting for it. If it is something you care about, do your best by it and follow good hygiene practices. And do the same with everything... because some virused plants will show no sign but be capable of infecting something else.

Inocucor

I can rebuy these orchids cheaper than most anything. I just like them and don’t wanna trash if I can easily cure. Perhaps that’s my answer.

---------- Post added at 04:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:28 PM ----------

I can barely afford Innocur as a preventative. No offense, it’s just not affordable to me as a cure. I surely do appreciate y’alls input. I’ve never seen anything like it. I reached out for much more expertise than I have.

All, thank you very much for the input. I asked, y’all responded with your best. Will let ya know what I decide. Kudos to all who took the time to respond.

Waterwitchin - could try agri-fos systematic. It's along the same lines as yates anti-rot phosacid. Around 18 to 19 dollars.

Even if this isn't the treatment for the cause of this, it'll be excellent to have this sort of systematic fungicide in the kit. That's if you haven't got this one already.

Gracias SouthPark, I’ll see if it’s available around here.

Let me make a couple of comments on that.

Yes, it's pricey, but the lack of rotting is awfully nice, considering what I've spent on plants.

A one-liter bottle will make about 25 gallons of solution, and with a moderate collection, one can go through that in fairly short order. However, I have found that if you water the plants thoroughly with it about every few months and spray them with it the other months, the protective population of microbes is apparently sustained, with a lot less product used.

The product is not sold as a curative, but I do know that doubling the concentration, then submerging the plants overnight, followed by daily misting with that same solution for about a week, has taken care of some pretty nasty rots I've dealt with. And for a few plants, it's worth it.

Good tips, Ray. Since I do exclusively SH for the most part, when I first started using it once a month I put it in same water I was flushing with. I recently started just using plain RO for the flush, then a goodly glug or two of Inocucor mixed in RO but not nearly as much down the drain as it was with a flush. That helped. Wasn't sure if it would work out the same, but affordable that way.

I like the idea of a double-dosing solution, soaking overnight, followed by spraying each day for awhile. I've already separated them from other orchids and I'll give it a shot. Better yet, maybe I'll use a systemic fungicide on one, and the Inocucor on the other two.

Look out!! WaterWitchin is getting the Bill Nye experiment bug! :rofl:

---------- Post added at 09:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 AM ----------

I looked it up. Gonna get some. And it says it cures late tomato blight...something I struggle with every year. I try to grow organic in the veggie garden, but Hmmmm...

So interestingly enough, my buddy David Bird (orchid breeder) and I got a chance to get together this weekend. I showed him pictures of the leaves on this Bllra. He immediately said... It got cold, didn't it? I said Only for a night. I lost a heater in basement but fixed it within a day or so. But it can't be from the cold, but cause only it and two other Aliceara show this. He asked what other orchids were on same shelf, and I told him. He said obvious cold damage... think of the leaf structure of them as compared to the others (all thicker leaved on the shelf).

I thought some might be interested. PS I trimmed off almost all that looked bad, and new growth is showing no effects.