Two hybrid Phal repotting questions

[j_orchids]

Hello Folks,

I have these two hybrid Phals

The one with the umbrella was a struggling orchid of a coworker that I am trying to rescue. It was tightly packed in spagnum, where I am told it had been for at least a couple years. It had very few short healthy roots. The old leaves have gone limp and at least two of them have turned yellow and fallen off, but it's also growing a new leaf. Is this normal and healthy behavior? Should I be optimistic about this orchid's eventual recovery?

The second is one that I got as a gift in February. It's in it's original pot and media from the florist/nursery. It flowered. Then, in the past couple months, it had grown a full leaf and a new one is starting. It also has a root that is growing out the bottom of the pot. This root is tightly wedged in the drainage holes, and there is a new air root, as you can see. Does this need to be repotted? Will it suffer/sulk from being repotted this far into it's growth cycle? I ask, because I always read that repotting should be done at the start of a new growth cycle. If repotted, should I try to save the root that is growing from the bottom of the pot?

Thanks!

~ Jon

[SaraJean]

Meh, phals can kind of be repotted whenever. I have not found them to be fussy about that sort of thing. I would definitely repot the one from the nursery. Those tend to be overstuffed with old, broken down sphagnum. If the media or health of a new orchid is questionable, checking its roots is the first thing to do. Try not to damage the new root with that nice green growth tip on it (or any heathy roots, for that matter). If there is room, you can try to carefully cut the plastic around that root poking out and give it a nice big window to fit through. You could wait to repot but then you could be risking the health of the whole plant, so might as well do the deed now.

For the one losing leaves, that's an excellent sign that it's growing a new leaf! Have you noticed any new roots yet? One of the reasons a phal drops older leaves is that it has a poor/weak/nonexistant root system that can't take up enough water to sustain the plant. So if you are seeing new roots along with the new leaf then, yes, you orchid is well on the road to recovery.
A potential problem- It looks like it might be over potted since you mentioned that it only had a few healthy roots. How deep is the sphagnum? How big is the pot that it's in? Is anything mixed in with it like bark? How long is the growing media staying wet? Have you grown phals in sphagnum previously? How long has it been in its current pot?
I'm not opposed to sphag or an orchid potted in a large, shallow container... but sphag, on its own, can be a bit tricky to manage in some growing conditions. A regular depth clay pot, that's filled with sphag, combined with an orchid that has a poor root system could lead to problems because the moss can not properly dry out and could potentially rot the root system.

---------- Post added at 11:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 PM ----------

Btw, have you read this thread The Phal abuse ends here. ? Lots of good info for helping these guys along. Also, don't forget to take in to consideration your growing conditions. Struggling phals love a little bit more warmth and higher humidity and those two things will really help push some roots out (that and KelpMax, aka, orchid crack)

[j_orchids]

Thank you for all the advice, SaraJean! I'll consider repotting the nursery Phal, but (1) it has no shpagnum - it seems to be potted in medium coconut husk chips, and the media seems pretty loose. (2) It's in a clear pot, so I can see that most of the (outside) roots are very healthy, but there's a couple of dead ones in there. If I do repot, should I move it into a 5" pot from the 4" it's in now, even though there are only a couple roots that seem to want to climb out?

On the rescue Phal with the umbrella. It's in a 3.5" terra cotta with small fir bark and sponge rock - it only has a little sheet moss (not sphagnum) as a top-dressing. It may be "over potted" because it only had 3 or four little roots of 1" or less when I potted it. But... it is growing that new leaf and also has a couple of new root "nubs" starting. It's only been in it's new pot for a few weeks.

I have read Phal Abuse Stops Here several times, and I am trying to follow all of the recommendations. Temperature and humidity are difficult for me to control - I have a windowsill in a tiny studio apartment and/or an office window in a high-rise building. The current growing conditions are cool and dry, and I imagine that growth will be very slow, but I guess that's just a limitation I have to accept for now. Increasing humidity while also allowing for good air circulation in my two tiny growing spaces is a problem I am trying to find a solution to.

~ Jon

PS I should have mentioned in my first post that the Tillandsia and sheet moss are just top dressings - I like the look of having that chunky bark stuff covered with something "softer"

[SaraJean]

Sounds like you are off to an excellent start! The rescue one sounds like it's doing great. For the nursery phal, personally, I would repot it, clean out the dead roots, and leave it in the same size container. That's just what would do. You can get away with something larger as long as you keep the media light, airy and not so deep. Edit: I forgot to add that I like to make a mound or ball of packing peanuts if I don't have a lot of roots in the center of the orchid. I also add packing peanuts in the bottom of the pot to control the depth. If the roots grow into them, that is totally fine. Just don't use the biodegradable ones

It sounds like your limiting factors are temp and humidity. Is there anyway you could get a small humidifier for your growing area? Bottom heat in the form of a seedling heat mat can help out with the temperatures at the root zone if there is no where else to move them. And just remeber that Terra-cotta can cool the orchid even more when wet. That is perfect for me since I grow outdoors and my temps are regularly between 80-100 degrees 9 months out of the year. That can be less than ideal if your temps are already pretty cool. The heat mat I mentioned can help counteract this

[j_orchids]

Thanks for your encouragement, SaraJean! On the rescue Phal, I probably shouldn't have potted it in terra cotta, given the office environment, but I was concerned about aesthetics because I am trying to revive it for a coworker (who had it in a coffee mug with no drainage).

I think a heat mat or humidifier will be a "no-go" in the office, but I have a heat mat I can use at home. On the humidifier - how do I keep the moisture near the 'chids? I imagine the "fog" just spilling off the windowsill. I'm thinking of some kind of barrier to put up, like a piece of plexiglass or something, but wouldn't that reduce circulation and lead to other problems? For the record, the windowsill space is about 3' by 1.5' tiled surface west-facing window above my kitchen sink. It just a window that is deeply "sunken" into the wall, and not one of those fancy garden window things (like my friend up the street has for her small orchid collection).

~ Jon

[Dollythehun]

Jon, this is only mho but, I would put them both in the same medium and type of pots. My thought is that it simplifies things. Terra Cotta will take more watering because water evaporates from it, and conversely perhaps gives off a teeny bit of humidity. If you then want to dress them up, drop them into a decorative cache pot. Also, again, mho, I do use a humidity tray under some of my plants. You can also go to a craft store and buy an attractive round vase/terrarium to sit them in, I then put some sheet moss in the bottom and keep it damp. Just my thoughts...

[j_orchids]

Thanks for your input, Dolly. In retrospect, the terra-cotta was not the best choice, but I didn't want to invest a lot of $ in helping my coworker with her orchid. I knew I had to get it out of the coffee mug it was in, and terra-cotta is more attractive than plastic and almost as cheap.

Regarding humidity trays, I have read many times that they don't raise the humidity enough to be of any effect, especially on an exposed windowsill where there is significant circulation/mixing with the air in the room. I've considered some kind of terrarium or fish tank, but wouldn't that limit circulation too much and lead to potential problems such as fungus/rot?

~Jon

[Dollythehun]

I have actually put plastic bags over my terrarium to raise humidity until the plant rooted. I have a ceiling fan in that room so that provides circulation, sans bag.

I'm aware of the humidity try discussion. Mine sit directly on it and I think it helps. Isn't just about any solution going to leak out into your room?

What about putting some foliage plants in that area, they give off humidity.

[j_orchids]

Dolly, these are great suggestions, and I thank you for them. My thoughts are about finding a way to increase local humidity around the plants without limiting circulation too much are leaving me with no 'perfect' solution, and maybe there really is no perfect solution for a very small space such as mine.

What I was trying to describe was creating a low 'shield' around the root zone of the plants on the windowsill to keep a bit of humidity around the root zone while allowing the upper zone a bit more interchange with the room air. Questioning whether any of this would make any real-world difference makes me think of buying a digital hygrometer and just testing out various ideas.

I've used plastic domes/bags/etc. for vegetable seedlings and such in the past, but that doesn't seem like a permanent solution for increasing humidity because it would drastically limit circulation and increase the chances for rot or other diseases. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

I do think that low humidity is a problem for me - I have fund that drenching my 'chids much more often (2-3 times a week) has helped them, which seems like a lot of watering, and makes me think low humidity is the reason.

~ Jon

EDIT: how long do you keep an orchid cooped up in a plastic bag with basically no circulation? What's the time limit on a practice like this, and do you remove the bag periodically to let it 'breathe'?

Originally Posted by Dollythehun

I have actually put plastic bags over my terrarium to raise humidity until the plant rooted. I have a ceiling fan in that room so that provides circulation, sans bag.

I'm aware of the humidity try discussion. Mine sit directly on it and I think it helps. Isn't just about any solution going to leak out into your room?

What about putting some foliage plants in that area, they give off humidity.

[Dollythehun]

When I have a plant struggling, or it needs an extra boost , I will bag it and usually take that off, maybe every couple of days so it can breathe. If you don't want to do an aquarium or terrarium, what about a low narrow storage box? From what you are saying, not much is going to be asthetically pleasing. What about a small green house with a cover. You often see them in stores in the spring...