Oh control, How?

[Matorchid]

Good morning Al Toronto and Ray,
I will work on actually getting 2013's water quality test appear for the both of you to look at. We get our water from a myriad of sources treated surface water a water treatment plant a bunch of different wells. That 600+ TBS is actually from some of the wells that's an average. The pH runs roughly it seems like over the past three years maybe 8.1 8.3 not quite as high as a .6 I thought I saw the number somewhere. These are our numbers to that don't include the desalinization plant that they were talking about building. A little bit later today I will try to work on getting those numbers up on this thread for you guys. I grew up in Sacramento in the water quality was great we got it from the lower American River there and I didn't have any problems with their water.
Ray, as far as the UV sterilizer was concerned I was going to set up a sink out my garage or something and have it feed into a big drum and was just going to have it keep circulating through the UV sterilizer. I have a lot of that stuff on hand so I wouldn't have to purchase anything or too much items and I know the RO units couple hundred bucks, and that's not feasible at this point in time it may be in the near future but as far as right now that's a no go. I'm just trying to make do with what I have without having to purchase anything right now. My lights I scrounged up in a dumpster and had a couple of ballasts on hand(I'm an electrician)and that's how I'm running my lights at this point in time. I'll be converting those over to T5 HO's as soon as I find the dang tombstones, have everything else but no tombstones.
I want to say thank you to the both of you for helping out I appreciate it, and I'll get that '13 info up a little bit later.

[snowflake311]

My grocery store sells RO water you can refill any container with it. I use to do this for my fish. I would get a 3 gal jug and fill it with RO water at the store. I even checked the ph because I have all that stuff and it was good water. See if your grocery store or even Walmart has a place where you can full containers with ro water normally back my the soda.

[Ray]

I really don't think the UV is going to be as effective as it probably should be, if you want to be sure you're not spreading pathogens. The best way to do that is to not share the water supply.

My counter-top RO units are $125, still more than tap water, but far better for your plants.

Adjusting the pH will be tough, as the high mineral content is what's keeping it high. Whatever you add to the water to adjust it just drives the TDS even higher.

Here's a simple fact: orchid growing is not an inexpensive hobby. Trying to "make do" and get by on the cheap is going to be riddled with frustration, so unless you focus on plants that really tolerate high-solids water well, you might be better off staying away from orchids until you can do it right.


Ray Barkalow
firstrays.com

[ALToronto]

Ray, I don't think that ALL orchids will do poorly with high TDS water. I have catts growing on concrete - they're getting a lot of calcium, even though I start with RO water. And what about growers that use well water - I remember a discussion on another forum where someone was saying that their water was 1200 ppm, mostly calcium.

I think that certain orchids can do well with 600 ppm, but it depends on what is in it. High calcium and magnesium, as well as some nitrate, and you can make it work. But I also agree that growing orchids isn't cheap, and if one is also a newbie, it can get even more expensive in terms of loss of plants.

[Matorchid]

Good Morning All,
I have gotten that Water Quality report. Now let's see if I can get it up here for you guys to look at. Me and this site, coupled with attachments don't mix very well.

Hmmm, preview looks good.

Before I end this post, I would like to say Thank you to you Ray, and AL Toronto for taking the time to help me out.

Also, Ray I was very aware that growing orchids was not the cheapest hobby in the world, when I started the funds were there, now in the past couple of months they are not, so instead of getting rid of my 150 or so plants I'm just doing what I can, with what I have till the funds come back which should be about 1 or 2 months. I just wanted to let you know, I'm not into letting anything with life suffer to a terrible degree, my 3 dogs, 2 parrots, and backyard garden are all in the same boat. But I really appreciate the advice and knowledge you have given me over the past months and encourage you to keep up the point blank advice you give me.

Hope your Sunday is a good one.

[ALToronto]

Sorry Tony, I can't read it at all. By the time I enlarge the image, it's far too fuzzy to make out the words.

Since this is an image file, you should go into your User CP (menu option at the top of the forum page), and create an album. Then upload the photo into the album and copy and paste its image URL into the body of your post. I'm pretty sure there is a sticky explaining how to post photos.

[Orchid Whisperer]

Ray, as an engineer, I would hope that you know that of course municipal supplies do adjust their pH to close to neutral for the reasons ALToronto mentioned. For maintenance reasons, they can't afford not to do so.

I looked up Pittsburgh water quality here:
Water Quality Reports . They report pH= 7.3 to 7.86 so close to neutral. The difference between a perfect neutral of 7.0 and 7.5-7.7 (or 7.3 to 7.86) is minor; for practical purposes, both are "neutral".

Originally Posted by Ray

Sorry, OW. That's just plain incorrect.

As I've been traveling about on my "Water quality/fertilizer/addit1ves" speaking tour, I have been checking the EC/TDS & pH of local water supplies, and haven't found a single one at pH=7. In Pittsburgh about 3 weeks ago, I saw some at pH = 5.7-6.5, and other samples at 7.5-7.7 and TDS range around 125-175. I was out at the Suffolk OS (Long Island) about a week ago, and the pH there was a pretty consistent 5.5-5.7, with TDS ranging from 25-75 (lucky so-and-so's).

Shifting back to the original query, I have two comments:

1. Everything that affects the pH is "chemical" (including vinegar).
2. The pH of the solution going into the pot is not nearly as important as the pH within the pot, and that is determined by a combination of the solutions, the nitrogen source in the fertilizer, the potting medium ingredients, and the plant itself. Collect the pour-though when you water and test that. If it's in the 5-7 range (preferably 5.5-6.5), it'll be fine for almost all orchids.

A low-TDS water supply at almost any pH is better than one adjusted "perfectly" with higher TDS. Don't forget that anything that goes into solution to adjust the pH will raise the dissolved solids content.

---------- Post added at 10:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 PM ----------

Tony, I can't read the water report either.

Regarding the UV, it probably is not safe to assume it will kill potential orchid viruses - I would just use that water for something else (conventional potted plants, etc.) or send it to the drain.

[Ray]

First of all, me being an engineer has absolutely no bearing on whether I know what municipalities do with their water.

OW, what I was stating was that due to the high solids content, if one does want to adjust the pH, it will be more difficult.

I have no argument with the pH being close to neutral, nor with the fact that some plants will tolerate high TDS levels, but both of those arguments ignore the fact that slightly acidic and very low TDS is what the plants typically see in nature, so in my mind, is a better thing to try and mimic.


Ray Barkalow
firstrays.com

[DeafOrchidLover]

Originally Posted by ALToronto

Ray, I don't think that ALL orchids will do poorly with high TDS water. I have catts growing on concrete - they're getting a lot of calcium, even though I start with RO water. And what about growers that use well water - I remember a discussion on another forum where someone was saying that their water was 1200 ppm, mostly calcium.



I think that certain orchids can do well with 600 ppm, but it depends on what is in it. High calcium and magnesium, as well as some nitrate, and you can make it work. But I also agree that growing orchids isn't cheap, and if one is also a newbie, it can get even more expensive in terms of loss of plants.

I do have well water, it's spring water. Very cold n clean, I do drink them, and of course I do water my chids, no problem.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ALToronto]

Tony, regardless of what is in your tap water, can you collect rain water? Many municipalities give away rain barrels, or sell them for a very low price. Then you can mix about 10% of tap water back in and get both the pH and calcium content just perfect.

A really cheap pH indicator is red cabbage. It changes colour from pink to blue when the pH is around 6. Pink is acidic, blue is alkaline. You don't need much to check your water, and then you can put the rest in your dinner.