Potting large specimen advice wanted

[james mickelso]

Back bulbs have latent buds around their base which when ready can push new pbulbs. What you really want from this specimen are all the front newer pbulbs which are most conducive to growth. Those I would take off as 4 pbulb bunches. Those remaining older pbulbs which may even be leafleass I would treat later as they are not important to dividing this plant. We'll deal with them later. Find the rizome from the newest pbulb and follow it back counting 4 or 5 pbulbs and make a cut there with a sterile cutting implement. I don't think a razor blade will cut through the rizome so the sharper the shears, the better for the plant. You can shave the end of this cut later with a razor to enhance healing. Once you have cut the rizome where you want, then you need to start trying to untangle the roots. This is where you have the opportunity to make or break the division and why you need to plan repotting every two years in the case of laelias and cattleyas. The most important thing to remember here is that the first two pbulbs root systems are the most important to the health of the division. These roots are going to feed the front of the division where you want more growth. The pbulbs behind the first two pbulbs are not much more than storage of moisture and nutrients. their roots are important only if you can get them out intact. Too much damage and it would be better to cut them off as they will die anyway and become fodder for fungal/bacterial growth. So there is an outline of what is needed and how to proceed. Any questions? Please feel free to ask as many questions as you would like. And no I don't have the lotto numbers.

---------- Post added at 10:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 PM ----------

I tried to save your pics to a folder so I could draw some arrows to help guide you but once I got the pics saved, they were very poor quality on my screen so let me know if you see where I'm going with this project. Do you know which are the new lead growths and which have new growth buds on the bases of the rizomes? Looking at he 4 pics I think this won't be too difficult for you.

[Dub3]

You have really helped. I take it you are not a fan of the plastic insert into the cut to allow the new divisions to adjust for a few months before disturbing the roots
by repotting.

What do you think of the insertion of a net pot into the center of the new repotting to allow air to the center root area if I decide not to divide. Does it work well?

Decisions, decisions oh well it keeps things interesting.

[james mickelso]

As to the question of cutting the rizome part way through, I do that often enough. I cut part way through to encourage the pbulb to grow a latent growth bud. Back bulbs are notorious for not growing out those latent growth buds. I cut the rizome to block the flow of nutrients and moisture forward and encourage the pbulb to start sending that energy to the growth buds. I don't know the chemical or hormonal names for these processes but they have worked for me. No plastic needed. Just a cut halfway through the rizome ahead of where you are trying to get a pbulb to push new growth. Net pots or inserts under the root mass? Good proposition. I think what you are trying to accomplish, which is to have a specimen plant, and that is admirable. But this plant has become too unruly and overgrown to be what you hope it will be. All the new growth will be at the edges of the group and the center will just deteriorate further. Better to start fresh, grow the divisions well, and produce your own specimen plant. If grown properly, those divisions will be specimen size in two to three years time and the envy of all your club mates. But with what I see in the pics, this will go downhill and possibly become infected with fungal diseases. As I said, there are lots of possibilities here. Say you cut a 5 bulb division and pot it up correctly for your environmental conditions. The back pbulb will most likely push a latent growth bud which will then give you two leads. Both of these will give you two more each and I've grown three growth buds on leads before. Now you have 4 new growth leads. These will then give you two each/growth lead and so on. See how fast this can happen? No need to try and foster a specimen plant from one which is well past it's prime. I say divide. Carefully. I don't know how to draw little arrows on your pics or I'd show you where the most advantageous cuts could be made to give you the most vigorous divisions. If you choose to keep these plants intact then by all means put some very coarse media underneath the central root mass and try to get more growth. But the center of the plant will never give you flowers as that is where the oldest pbulbs reside. Trying to make cuts on those inside rizomes with all that new growth extracting nutrients and moisture from the old pbulbs which are storage for the new growth, will be tough and not accomplish what you think your technique will. I vote for starting fresh while you have lots of good weather ahead. Whatever you choose, I'll help you with whatever info you might need. Good luck.

[Dub3]

Great advise!! I guess I'll start dividing tomorrow and see what happens.

Again, Thanks for you advise

[james mickelso]

If these were my plants, I would look at them awhile, make a plan, mark with Magic Marker where I planned to make cuts based on root mass and growth direction, and draw out what I wanted to do. Instead of just whacking away with a machete and seeing what comes out. I know you want the best possible outcome, so take awhile looking at what you have and have a plan. I may take an hour or more planning. I take the plant out of the pot, set it on top the over turned pot and just look. I carefully dig out the old media one piece at a time. Turn the root ball around and look some more. Take your time. This plant will live outside the pot for a couple days with no adverse effects so a couple hours is no big deal. have everything you might need to repot, stabilize, cut, and pot onhand before you start. Have a camera too. Post pics of what you do. This helps those who come after you with the same issues. I will be on the board most of the day. I'll come here every hour or so. I'm nursing a very sick dog so I will be here often. So patience Grashopper. Let's all say "ommmmm".

[JMNYC]

Originally Posted by james mickelso

Lots of possibilities here. Divide or not? How many divisions of you divide? What to do with so many divisions if you divide into small 5 division bunches? How many pbulbs are viable? How many of these older leafless pbulbs have viable eyes? My concern with such a large root mass is root damage from rot. Getting air into and underneath such a large root mass posses challenges. The growing pbulbs on the outside of this mass dry as needed but the older pbulbs on the inner portion may not dry as rapidly. I can't see the root mass closely so can't make any judgements outside of experience with similar root masses. The newer pbulbs show very good root growth. That in itself presents problems of their own. To adequately divide this, I think a 4 or 5 division would keep the specimen size in tact but bring them down to a manageable size with fewer problems in the next two or three years before needing another repot. May we see pictures of the root mass up close? The leaves and pbulbs of the plant up close? Nice project you have there. I'd be salivating.

Another brilliant, thorough, covers all the bases that matter offering from James! I ditto every part.

And yes, assessing the condition of the root mass here is key.

When they grow in the wild, they get both light and air to the roots ongoing; when we grow them in cultivation, not so much....and the bigger and denser the root mass, the more that's precluded.

[Dub3]

James, we'll I bit the bullet and divided one of the big ones it was labeled as "BLC Momolam, rainbow, mgr" I goggled the name and came up with nothing. The only other notation was repotted 08.

After soaking the plant for several hours I broke the pot and was very surprised the roots were massive and in very good condition. The media was not broken down at all must have been Orchiatta Bark. I hear it can go years without breakdown. Now I believe it.

This is when my problems start. I rolled, shook, dug, tapped with my hand and pick bark for 2 hours until I gave up and decided to start dividing. It was impossible to untangle those roots. I heard somewhere that divided they fall!! After making a couple of divisions the mass got smaller. I was able to get all divisios as front divisions and all had a good amount of roots. I did through away a double hand full of roots that were too knotted to work with.

I potted the divisions into 2 6" clay orchid pots and 4 5" slotted clear plastic pots. 3 went into lava rock and 3 into Orchiatta Bark. All divisions now have at least one new shoot. All got 3 good waterings and were put with my Phals. In the greenhouse. After I see some new roots I'll move them to better light.

The original plant had 47 bulbs 9 of which were new shoots 4" to 7" long. I only lost one new shoot in all of my tugging.

Now to wait and see what happens