Gravel at bottom of pot
Login
User Name
Password   


Registration is FREE. Click to become a member of OrchidBoard community
(You're NOT logged in)

menu menu

Sponsor
Donate Now
and become
Forum Supporter.

Gravel at bottom of pot
Many perks!
<...more...>


Sponsor
 

Google


Fauna Top Sites
Register Gravel at bottom of pot Members Gravel at bottom of pot Gravel at bottom of pot Today's PostsGravel at bottom of pot Gravel at bottom of pot Gravel at bottom of pot
LOG IN/REGISTER TO CLOSE THIS ADVERTISEMENT
Go Back   Orchid Board - Most Complete Orchid Forum on the web ! > >
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-04-2023, 10:14 PM
Grim Tuesday Grim Tuesday is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 102
Gravel at bottom of pot
Default Gravel at bottom of pot

I have a nice, ceramic, perfectly sized pot that unfortunately only has one drainage hole. I was thinking of putting gravel at the bottom of it to effectively make a lot of drainage holes (that eventually all go to the main one at the bottom) but I encountered this puzzling article by the University of Nebraska Extension. I have a really hard time understanding what they mean by it. Does anyone here have experience (positive or negative) with gravel at the bottom of a pot? I'm thinking like 1/2 inch river rocks, not sand.

Here is the article:
The Hard Truth about Rocks at the Bottom of Planting Containers | Nebraska Extension
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-04-2023, 10:24 PM
Louis_W's Avatar
Louis_W Louis_W is online now
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Albuquerque New Mexico
Posts: 984
Gravel at bottom of pot
Default

Are you using it for orchids? Like with bark? If so I dont think this will apply at all.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-04-2023, 10:27 PM
Roberta's Avatar
Roberta Roberta is offline
Super Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Zone: 10a
Location: Coastal southern California, USA
Posts: 13,858
Gravel at bottom of pot Female
Default

First of all, remember that they're talking about plants that grow in dirt ... so there's the issue of soil washing out of the pot. That's not an issue for orchids - your mix should be well-drained anyway. How big is your drainage hole?

Another concern if you're using a nice ceramic pot for your orchids, think ahead a couple of years (repotting time) to what's going to happen if it gets really happy and roots go wild, sticking to the sides of the pot. You could need to make the choice between the pot and the roots, sometimes with stuck-on roots the only way to get the plant out of the pot without harming roots is to break the pot. I suggest that you use a cheap plastic pot, or terracotta pot and then nest it in the decorative pot for aesthetics. But gravel at the bottom isn't going to hurt anything - you don't want the orchid sitting in water, no matter how you pot it. You want the water to flow through the medium (pulling air into the root zone) and draining out, no matter how you decide to "organize" it, doesn't matter whether it is one hole or many it's the drainage that is important.
__________________
Orchids teach patience!

Roberta's Orchids (visit my back yard)

See what orchid species are blooming in Southern California(New page for DECEMBER 2024)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-04-2023, 11:22 PM
Ray's Avatar
Ray Ray is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: May 2005
Member of:AOS
Location: Oak Island NC
Posts: 15,204
Gravel at bottom of pot Male
Default

Here’s the facts:

Water in the media column is held by 2 factors: absorption and surface tension that holds water between the particles. The absorbed water is pretty independent, particle by particle, but the interstitial water is affected by the weight of the water above it. The taller the column, the more the weight above any point, and that overwhelms the surface tension, pushing some of the water out the bottom, with end result being less water contained.

If you add a “drainage layer”, you shorten the column, reducing the weight of the water column, allowing more of it to stay in the medium.

You can prove it to yourself using an ordinary sponge. Soak it and hold it flat until it drains. Then stand it on an end and more water will drain out.
__________________
Ray Barkalow, Orchid Iconoclast
FIRSTRAYS.COM
Try Kelpak - you won't be sorry!
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 2 Likes
Likes estación seca, Clawhammer liked this post
  #5  
Old 04-04-2023, 11:26 PM
Dimples Dimples is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2022
Zone: 8b
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 956
Gravel at bottom of pot
Default

The thing about having gravel at the bottom of the pot is, that regardless of people’s experience, be it good or bad, the article is correct and that means everyone’s plants could have been better without the gravel. The science is sound. When using a fine particulate planting material, putting a traditional drainage layer in the bottom actually makes drainage worse because it reduces the total amount of aerated soil in the pot.

If you’re using particles over 1/16-1/8th inch (it’s right around there) then it doesn’t matter because gravity will win over adhesion, and extra water will run off regardless of particle size distribution in the pot. So, orchid bark and similar stuff don’t operate under the conditions described in the article.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-05-2023, 10:05 AM
Ray's Avatar
Ray Ray is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: May 2005
Member of:AOS
Location: Oak Island NC
Posts: 15,204
Gravel at bottom of pot Male
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimples View Post
If you’re using particles over 1/16-1/8th inch (it’s right around there) then it doesn’t matter because gravity will win over adhesion, and extra water will run off regardless of particle size distribution in the pot. So, orchid bark and similar stuff don’t operate under the conditions described in the article.
I'll partially agree with that.

The same physics applies no matter what, but it's a matter of degree. However, the particle shape and size distribution of the potting medium plays a huge role in the degree of bridging water.

If the particle size is relatively large and approaching spherical, the percentage of bridging water is low. The smaller the particles and/or the more irregular in shape they are, and/or the greater the particle size distribution, the more of it will be retained.

I did an experiment with 1 cm Grodan rock wool cubes to test that.
__________________
Ray Barkalow, Orchid Iconoclast
FIRSTRAYS.COM
Try Kelpak - you won't be sorry!

Last edited by Ray; 04-05-2023 at 10:14 AM..
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes
Likes Toadwally liked this post
  #7  
Old 04-05-2023, 01:13 PM
Dimples Dimples is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2022
Zone: 8b
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 956
Gravel at bottom of pot
Default

Ray - yes, there will still be some bridged water between particles, even when the average particle size in a mix is large. That aspect of any growing medium isn’t positively influenced by a drainage layer being present (or absent) in a pot, which is why drainage layers are counterproductive until the average particle size in a mix increases to the point where the entire soil column is decently aerated. Otherwise all that’s achieved by adding a drainage layer is a reduction of the available aerated soil/mix because the perched water table now sits higher in the pot.

Now, adding a ballast to reduce the volume of mix present at the bottom of the pot can help minimize the total volume of fully saturated mix at the bottom, but it still doesn’t directly influence the actual drainage of the mix.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-05-2023, 04:25 PM
Subrosa's Avatar
Subrosa Subrosa is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jul 2013
Zone: 6b
Location: PA coal country
Posts: 3,383
Gravel at bottom of pot Male
Default

I use rocks at the bottom of my Catasetum pots, but only for ballast so they don't blow over. Since they're sitting in trays of water, drainage isn't really an issue.
__________________
Be who you are and say what you think. Those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter.
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes
Likes SG in CR liked this post
  #9  
Old 04-05-2023, 04:44 PM
Grim Tuesday Grim Tuesday is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 102
Gravel at bottom of pot
Default

Would I be correct in characterizing the results of this discussion as: in the case of large enough gravel, and relatively large, non-highly-wicking medium (e.g. bark) then then we are outside of a regime where gravel makes drainage worse?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-05-2023, 08:17 PM
Dimples Dimples is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2022
Zone: 8b
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 956
Gravel at bottom of pot
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday View Post
Would I be correct in characterizing the results of this discussion as: in the case of large enough gravel, and relatively large, non-highly-wicking medium (e.g. bark) then then we are outside of a regime where gravel makes drainage worse?
Yes
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
article, bottom, drainage, gravel, pot


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Water collecting at bottom of pot - do I have to get it out? xDannyS_ Hybrids 5 07-05-2022 07:49 AM
Chunky old Den Phal thriving in ... gravel?!? mexicowpants Potting & Repotting 20 07-21-2016 08:44 AM
Dying Bottom Leaf & White Spots Higgins23 Pests & Diseases 2 07-19-2013 10:13 AM
Terrarium is finally finished! Paul Mc Terrarium Gardening 41 03-21-2013 09:49 AM
Hydroton Bottom Layer? Izzie Beginner Discussion 3 06-29-2010 06:00 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:33 AM.

© 2007 OrchidBoard.com
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.37 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Clubs vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.