Thoughts? Ideas? Cool growers in less than idea conditions

[Salixx]

Hi everyone,

I recently purchased this mini, indoor greenhouse on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I got it for my cool and cool preference Masdies and pleuros in general for which I feel would benefit from elevated humidity. I have a "full" size one of these greenhouses and have experimented, successfully, in getting the humidity high. That greenhouse is overflowing with warmish (and some intermediate) growers. I have seedling mats on the second level for my S/H warm growers, with the top level being mounted plants. The mats seem to do a good job of keeping the whole thing warmer than the rest of the room. The humidity is always high (80%+) I would like to move the intermediates out and into a more intermediate, to intermediate cool set up and move my cool growers into it as well.

My problem has become that I did not measure the mini-house's intended space and well, it isn't going to fit. I could put it in the intended room, but it is a southern window and I am afraid my plants will cook in the enclosed space during the day. I do have an (orchid free ), heavily shaded eastern window that I could put the set up in. During the winter, with the wood stove going, the room might get down into the high 50's at night, but also can get up into the 80's (still perfecting my skill in heat control!). Nothing is really a guarantee with it. I have a back up heater that is set to 50F most of the winter in case the stove goes out so nobody will freeze, though a few of my warm growers may not be happy.

A side note, I'm not terribly concerned with light from the window - primary lighting will be artificial.

I know we have some dedicated Masdie and Pleuro lovers here, so I'm reaching out- What would you do? I've read numerous places before that temperature changes and humidity are far more important than actual coolness, but I would like a more experienced person's point of view.

I love all orchids, but I have become smitten with Masdevallias and their ilk - not keeping them is not an option . I do try to focus on temperature tolerant and intermediate growers, but there are a few cool ones I just have to try.

Thanks!

[wintergirl]

I have many species Masdies. I would not use it. It will be way too warm in my environment. I like using clay pots with clay pellets or Kool logs. I have a North window but some masdies are under lights. I had 2 in a wine chiller and just now took them out as it is cooler now, but they are still in the home.

[Tindomul]

I agree with winter girl. Keep them in clay pots. Maybe get a humidifier that will raise the the humidity of the room. Also, have you looked into kool logs?

[stonedragonfarms]

I'll go ahead and be the outlier; with 3 caveats:
1. If you're sticking to hybrid masdevallias (Maui Lollipop, Redwing, etc.), then you should be fine--just make sure they're in clay pots, preferably in either straight long fibre sphagnum or 3:1 sphagnumerlite
2. You will need something inside to circulate air; the only pleurothallids I've kept in a non-circulating case have been the miniature Lepanthes sp. (caprimugulus, calydicton, etc.; they tolerate it, but really do best with air flow in addition to humidity.
3. Experiment; I'd start with a couple cheap plants, ie any of the readily available masdevallia hybrids and/or Pleurothallis grobyi, Pleuro. palliolata, etc.
Just my 2¢,
Adam

[Orchid Whisperer]

You can modify the clay pot idea to create a 'zeer' that will keep the roots cool by evaporative cooling. I have a Coelogyne cristata growing happily in a zeer.

Fundamentally, azeer consists of two unglazed terracotta pots of different sizes, one inside the other. The use of unglazed (porous) terracotta is essential. Plastic or glazed materials (non-porous) will not work. The space between pots is filled with sand. I use a piece of synthetic fabric to keep the sand from filtering out of the bottom drainage hole. Place the whole thing on a drip tray for the pot. Keep the sand wet, the inside of the inner pot will stay significantly cooler than ambient air because of evaporative cooling. Look up photos of 'zeer' on the internet and you'll see how they are constructed.

[Salixx]

Thank you all for your valuable input. I will refrain from putting my cool growers in the green house. I currently keep them in my bedroom- the nights won't fall below ~60f, but it is offset from the fireplace and the room is typically 5-10 degrees cooler during the day because of it. I should ask, what humidity is acceptable? I have a whole house humidifier that currently does a good job of keeping the place at 60%. It is untested for the winter, however. The bedroom is, a little easier and has it's own humidifier. Again, though, 50-60% might be my best in the winter and I don't want to go above 60 anyway for mold concerns. I am working on weatherizing cracks around the window frames where they don't shut evenly. I hope between the humidifier and sealing up some things, I can keep the humidity higher. It was pretty miserable last winter...

With the few cool and cool pref growers that I have, I do use clay pots. I actually grow them s/h in clay pots sitting in a saucer of water. They are a Masdevallia chaparensis, M. Flying Colors and M. Cassiope. I have found there are usually enough intermediate and warm growers to keep me satisfied... I didn't pick the Cassiope, the chaparensis I *had* to have and the Flying Colors was an impulse buy at an orchid show.

I do have a large, 120mm computer fan coming for the greenhouse for circulation. I guess that I was thinking of using the whole set up as more of a terrarium without the associated costs, weight etc. that comes with them. I'm, honestly, really looking for a way to keep these guys successfully mounted. I really love the way mounted plants look and also, it seems to me, the plants really like being mounted provided their other needs are met. Some day, I'll get some Kool-logs or those hanging vases that kelly's korner orchid supply sells. I really like them... just cheaper to go outside and grab an oak branch

I will try to remember to post a picture of my current set-up later to give a better idea to where my mind is at.

Thanks again, you guys are really great

[Salixx]

Pictures of my current warm-grower set up are attached.

The ones I want to move out to the new location are: M. brachyura, M. rolfeana, M. atropurpurea and R. trichoglossa. The rolfeana might get put with the other potted masdies though, since it's in s/h and not mounted.

None of these, IMO, are particularly rare or very expensive... all under $30. Generally, expensive isn't my style anyway!

[Tindomul]

Originally Posted by Orchid Whisperer

You can modify the clay pot idea to create a 'zeer' that will keep the roots cool by evaporative cooling. I have a Coelogyne cristata growing happily in a zeer.

Fundamentally, azeer consists of two unglazed terracotta pots of different sizes, one inside the other. The use of unglazed (porous) terracotta is essential. Plastic or glazed materials (non-porous) will not work. The space between pots is filled with sand. I use a piece of synthetic fabric to keep the sand from filtering out of the bottom drainage hole. Place the whole thing on a drip tray for the pot. Keep the sand wet, the inside of the inner pot will stay significantly cooler than ambient air because of evaporative cooling. Look up photos of 'zeer' on the internet and you'll see how they are constructed.

Thanks for this. I was wondering (recently) what a zeer pot was.

[Salixx]

So, I went ahead with my plans, though I have stuck to intermediate - warm species and have more non-pleuros than I do pleuros, but I wanted to post an update picture.



Light:
3X60w equiv. daylight LED bulbs and some, unavoidable direct sun for ~30min/day.

Temps:
High 75-80F, Low 60-65F

Humidity: 70-80%

Pleurothallids doing well in this set up are:
M. floribunda (purple), M. atropurpurea, M. brachyura, M. oscitans, M. coriacea and R. trichoglossa. The coriacea is a cool leaning grower but is on a Kool-log.

Those that resented it and have been moved to a cooler location are: M. torta (despite being mounted on a cool log) and M. glandulosa. Old leaves were fine but new growths rotted just before leaves opened. Moving seems to have solved this.

I used the middle shelf that came with the greenhouse as a background to hang mounts on. I also hung a bunch of spanish moss on the back before the mounts to give it a more natural look. The bottom has a shoe tray filled with aquarium gravel. This collects water so I can spray everyone down like crazy without getting anything wet that shouldn't be it also acts as a huge humidity tray. I have one large, 120mm cabinet/computer fan running 24/7. Other plants doing well are: Catt. Small World, Soph. cernua, Brought. nigrilensis, Nagelia purpurea, Schon. fragrans, Ang. didieri, Gong. atropurpurea and a little Seliginella (spikemoss).

I have a whole bunch of Masdies and other Pleuros (read, I went cray-cray) I will be picking up from Ecuagenera at the NHOS show next month (I ordered them in Nov and I am DYING to get them!). I'm going to try several in here as well to see who handles the higher temps my woodstove spits out the best.

[Pattywack]

Ok, cray-cray or not, I really like what you've done! You've made a terrarium out of the greenhouse and it's really cool. I assume this is the smaller greenhouse you recently bought? What do you have growing on the wood in the pot? Looks very nice. I hope you will post updates on this little project, thanks for sharing!