Student Judge question: minis getting flower quality awards

[littlefrog]

Sigh... I'm an orchid judge and I gladly volunteer my time and resources, and I have for a long time. It is what a volunteer organization is about, people volunteering. Why on earth would I expect to get paid to be a student? I was barely paid to be a graduate student in biology, and I was actually working... I teach for practically nothing these days. Money isn't everything.

Politics aside and back to the original question. I have no problems giving miniature orchids (or miniature orchid species) quality awards. However, most of the time we don't have anything to compare a flower to when it comes to the more obscure species. Generally, smaller pleurothallids are only grown by a handful of people, and will never be seen in the numbers that standard phals are seen (we've been awarding phals again, for some reason).

So, the first time though, I'm looking at a plant that a) I have never seen before b) I am largely going on faith that it is labelled correctly - barring an obvious difference from the literature, and c) I don't know how well it is grown. Is a Pl. grobyi with ten growths and 10 flowers spectacular or just plain tiny (tiny - they can get hundreds of growths, but you don't know that for most things).

Now, if I can find a documented specimen in the literature (either AOS literature or elsewhere), then I have a starting point. Quality award? Sure, if it deserves one. I don't care how big the flowers are, if they are substantially better than a previous specimen, I'm going to award it. Cultural awards if the plant is grown well, sure, why not.

[Bud]

Wait! why is this becoming a personal vendetta against me? I am not the bad guy here.

I am questioning why AOS cant even give gas money to students much less a subway or bus ticket??!!
I gave $65 of my money to AOS and I am sure millions of others also gave....
AOS is a big bussines. Its a corporation. If I was volunteering for red cross or an epidemic hospital in Africa...then I will forgive .....
A big bussiness must at least provide some stipend or allowance for these students who will give their time and effort for the next 6 years of their lives....
intead : I hear complains like on this thread of quotes and side comments from Judges...and the student of this thread feels AOS is not helping her being brought to the present century instead of the dark ages....
* OH and Ice Penguin....look at 'little frog' he says he is an AOS judge, brandishing it for all to see and is proud of it...where is your badge??!! I have seen two more other members here who are AOS judge and they have their full name emblazoned.....

*I am adamantly rooting militantly for AOS to change their ways and stop the abuse of OB members and others students....there should be change!

[FairyInTheFlowers]

Originally Posted by Bud

Wait! why is this becoming a personal vendetta against me? I am not the bad guy here.

Everyone is against YOU because YOU are the only one who finds the fact that students don't get paid to be abuse. Like I have said SO MANY TIMES, every student enters training knowing that there will be no support, that is the laws of the AOS, it is a volunteer organization. If someone has an issue with the AOS's policies, they don't get involved with the AOS.

Originally Posted by Bud

*I am adamantly rooting militantly for AOS to change their ways and stop the abuse of OB members and others students....there should be change!

I don't think that is going to happen, as you seem to be the only one here out of many who is against the AOS. It is NOT abuse unless the students themselves think that it is abuse. You cannot decide for them what training is.

[Call_Me_Bob]

Originally Posted by Bud

Wait! why is this becoming a personal vendetta against me? I am not the bad guy here.

I am questioning why AOS cant even give gas money to students much less a subway or bus ticket??!!
I gave $65 of my money to AOS and I am sure millions of others also gave....
AOS is a big bussines. Its a corporation. If I was volunteering for red cross or an epidemic hospital in Africa...then I will forgive .....
A big bussiness must at least provide some stipend or allowance for these students who will give their time and effort for the next 6 years of their lives....
intead : I hear complains like on this thread of quotes and side comments from Judges...and the student of this thread feels AOS is not helping her being brought to the present century instead of the dark ages....
* OH and Ice Penguin....look at 'little frog' he says he is an AOS judge, brandishing it for all to see and is proud of it...where is your badge??!! I have seen two more other members here who are AOS judge and they have their full name emblazoned.....

*I am adamantly rooting militantly for AOS to change their ways and stop the abuse of OB members and others students....there should be change!

its becoming a personal vendetta (to use your words) because you came out and blatantly attacked the AOS and my friends who are judges and student judges! if you dont like the AOS, fine! but please dont go around on all these threads starting rants of hate and venom, nobody likes it!!! if your too thick skulled to see what the AOS and their judges/students have done for our hobby and that judges and student judges are VOLTUNEERS (know what that means? it means someone who helps and gives WITHOUT expecting or receiving personal gain) then im sorry. but going around insulting and attacking people who have done so much for the hobby and people who i personally know some of, is not the way to go! please stop! its obvious nobody else (including those who are students and judges) see it as abuse, so maybe you should try to not hate on the AOS, or at least hate in silence where nobody is bothered and upset by you!

i think ive stated my points many times and you've ignored them, therefore, im done with this thread, unless it has to do with the original question. have a good life!

couchalot- im very sorry that you had to have this happen on your thread, i promise most of us are nice people

[littlefrog]

I have never once heard anybody ask for 'gas money' from the AOS. Seriously? You could ask, you might get it, I don't know, but it has never come up in my hearing. You can deduct travel expenses from your federal (and perhaps state) income taxes if it is in support of a non-profit institution. I do that.

The way this whole judging system works is that there are many independent centers. Each center has its own finances. My center (Great Lakes) is one of the older ones. We do fundraising and use the funds to do educational things, mostly bringing in speakers or renting meeting space when we need to. We don't get any money from AOS (in fact we donate to the AOS). It is a shoestring operation. When we deduct donations from our personal taxes, we do it under the non-profit status of our center, not the AOS. I suppose that if a center wanted to pay for gas money they could...

Judging is one function of the AOS, but it isn't supported by your AOS membership dues. Or if it is, it isn't a large support. The award database, paperwork, and staff (if we still have staff, we used to have one person at HQ I think) are covered in large part by the award fees. They were losing money even with the large award fees, so perhaps some of that was supported out of the general fund. Indeed, when the AOS was in its most dire financial troubles, there was substantial talk among at least a few of us judges about whether we could do it without the AOS. The consensus was, probably, we could do it. Seriously, judging is so removed from the AOS budget it could survive on its own.

You may ask what your AOS membership buys you. A large portion of the membership pays for the magazine, it isn't cheap. I don't know what the financial situation is now, but it wasn't looking good for a long time. Giving out gas money and bus tickets really wasn't an option.

[littlefrog]

Before I get hammered by somebody, I don't in any way represent the AOS and my impressions of finances are strictly my own. FYI...

[Bud]

The only legitimate judge of AOS here is not affected by my opinion.

I dont know where you got the idea that I am insulting or attacking....I am merely voicing an opinion and it is my right of speech....you also have that right but you seem to be the attacker here if you read all you have written....I never attacked nor insulted a fellow member here on OB in this thread

Maybe because you take it very personal that this had deeply affected you and must have triggered a nerve .....relizing that AOS did this damage to you and you cant take back the time....

[Mira-Claude]

I do nor understand this talk about giving money for the expenses of the students...
You might want to expand on that.
I mean I was a student nurse not that long ago. I never had the school pay me bus fare to go study, hell I even had to pay the school to be allowed in the classrooms! When we were doing stages in hospital or retirees homes we sometimes had to go as far as 2 hours out of our ways, nobody ever paid us anything. We did pay our travel fees and lunches and uniforms!
Why would anybody be paid to learn more about their hobby? In a way, you go to school! When as a school ever been free?
In fact I am surprised that my classes are free! The only expanse is my travel fee and lunch once a month.
Not only is it not a form of abuse but in a way I find myself thinking I am abusing the judges who freely gives their time to further the knowledge of those under their wing and the botanical garden who freely gives us the locals where we do learn.
So please, explain to me how I am being abused?

[goodgollymissmolly]

OK Bud enough of your nonsensical BS. When you talk about someone not being a judge.... look in the mirror. Why do you care what people do if you are not involved? If I want to volunteer my time, ability, and money to judge orchids that is my business and none of your freaking business.

You don't have a dog in this game, but you clearly have your head in a dark place.

[FairyInTheFlowers]

Originally Posted by Bud

Maybe because you take it very personal that this had deeply affected you and must have triggered a nerve .....relizing that AOS did this damage to you and you cant take back the time....

Haha, damage? Where are you getting this idea about damage? Did not Littlefrog just explain where most membership fees go? I think the money I paid to become a member for a year, which gets me a year subscription to Orchids was WELL worth the money. You don't realize that all of us here are in support of the AOS; that's the reason we have a 'triggered nerve'.