Draculas in 2.3 metre growing case - what height?

[daemondamian]

Hello folks,
I'm setting up a glass growing case that will be approximately 2.3 metres tall for various orchids and I have a D. bella x cordobae, D. Gigas Marnie, D. vampira, D. vampira 'JJ" and a Dracula bella that I'm going to divide and put in a piece of as well.

I'm trying to figure out at what height they can/should be put in at.

I've had the bella x cordobae and bella flower before but I don't recall how long the spikes were.

IOSPE PHOTOS says that Dracula vampira has 15 to 19" [37 to 57 cm] long inflorescences

Also the gigas IOSPE PHOTOS has upright blooms on [60 cm] long, successively few flowered, racemose inflorescences.

In terms of light at the top will be a 150W Metal Halide and 1 or 2 supplemental 50watts or more compact fluorescents and 4 x 96cm 30watt tube fluorescents hanging vertically on both sides (facing in of course) providing light.

Any tips, suggestions on placement?

[Lordoftheswarms]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't metal halide generate a lot of heat, a lot of light, and cost a lot to run? I'd go with a plasma light for that amount of space.
Not sure how it is for encouraging blooming, but it's got pretty good quality of light apparently.
Maybe you could use your fluorescent lights for providing the flowering spectrum if it doesn't do that.
At 300 Watts, it's pretty cost effective for what it can do.
Lighting

[daemondamian]

Originally Posted by Lordoftheswarms

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't metal halide generate a lot of heat, a lot of light, and cost a lot to run? I'd go with a plasma light for that amount of space.
Not sure how it is for encouraging blooming, but it's got pretty good quality of light apparently.
Maybe you could use your fluorescent lights for providing the flowering spectrum if it doesn't do that.
At 300 Watts, it's pretty cost effective for what it can do.
Lighting

Hi yep they do generate a fair bit of heat but it will be sitting 5-10cm above the glass on top (totally not touching but attached to a stand).

Plus the case I made which is completely open on the bottom also has a 12cm pc fan blowing air in one side and 2 12 cm holes with vents on the other side - so that the heat generated should blow out through the side and less downwards.

I'm hoping the mist system (from mistking) will help cool things down and also might get an ultrasonic humidifier and there will be 5-10c, water in the bottom, there is a canister filter powering a drip wall at the back (goes on and off) and another canister filter to partly use for a waterfall and the rest to create a flow in the water.

So I'm hoping all the evaporating sources of water will increase the humidity as well as possibly lowering temps.

If it does get way too hot in summer such that plants really suffer and start deteriorating significantly from it (unairconditioned room) I might look into getting a aquarium water chiller and somehow hook that up to cool things down.

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[Lordoftheswarms]

It may be worthwhile looking at different lighting as well. You better live somewhere where there is very little humidity if you want to get the temperatures down to what Dracula like, or so I would think.

Also, MH are what a friend of mine uses to grow vandas. Doesn't seem that you are going to want all that light.

If I were to guess, I would say you are going to have sun burnt, heat stressed dracula, especially if any part of your cooling system fails.

[31drew31]

I think a MH light is a little over kill even with the height of the case. Only the bottom half would probably be useful for Draculas as any closer they would burn. That said though, you could grow stronger light loving plants higher up and the Draculas below with the "shade" from the plants above.

[daemondamian]

Thanks Lordoftheswarms and 31drew31 for your helpful replies.

So the 150W MH will be too much for the draculas unless I put in the bottom half below the shade of stronger light loving plants higher up - that would sort out the sunburn issue.

There is still the heat though - well in summer it's not very humid here. I've decided to put fans in at the top (under the glass but spaced a bit from it) blowing down to recirculate air.

If the power were to go off in Summer on a really hot day I suppose I could just open the case (I'm going to have the front opening) and hand mist?

So this article How Much Light do Orchids Need? lists
HIGH LIGHT ORCHIDS
-like very bright light and some direct sun
e.g. cymbidiums(pictured), vandas, standard cattleyas, dendrobium (phalaenopsis type)
BRIGHT LIGHT ORCHIDS
-like bright light but no direct sun
e.g. oncidinae intergenerics(pictured), oncidiums, miniature cattleyas, phalaenopsis, phragmipediums
LOW LIGHT ORCHIDS
- like bright indirect light
e.g. mottled-leaved paphiopedilums, jewel orchids, many angraecoids

If I put the draculas at just below the half way mark that would leave 1.15 metres or 115 cm above or below which should be enough height for the pendulous dracula blooms (and maybe putting the gigas even lower because it has upright spikes.

In terms of other orchids I have 2 Vanda tessellata x coerulea seedlings which are roughly 30cm ish across by 10cm tall, a Vanda Fuchs Blue x coerulea seedling and a Ascocenda Princess Mikasa 'Blue' seedling (about half the size smaller than the tessellata x corerulea seedlings).

They would obviously tolerate higher light but they still need room to grow so how high up or close to the top can they go (assuming that I want them to have room to grow and flower but that if they get to tall I can top them leaving behind the mothers from which keiki's can grow)?

As to other high light plants I do have one or more plants that I could use (that are either seedlings, small plants or big full grown) such as some dendrobium speciosums (might get a little to big maybe though? ), some dendrobium kingianums and kingianum x delicatum hybrids, dendrobium loddigesii (seedlings), 2 mounts of Dendrobium prenticei, big mount of Dockrillia pugioniformis, some Dendrobium aemulum, and a few other unnamed species and hybrids of terete or Rat tail variety dockrillas, dendrobium uncatum, 3 different mounted dendrobium tetragonums,


Laelia anceps (mounted on tree fern), Laelia tenebrosa (big seedling), Laelia milleri (mounted on cork), Leptotes bicolor (tree fern mounted), Slc Kauai Starbright Vi x S. acuensis, Slc mini Dorris Carmela x Slc Bright Angel,

Also um could put tillandsias at the top - not sure if too bright for broms though.

Then for bright/filtered (under/shaded by everything above?):

Miltonia clowesi, Miltonia flavescens, Miltonia stenoglossa, Miltassia estralita,

Oncidium species: ornithorhynchum, incurvum, trulliferum, excavatum, phymatochilum,

Hybrids: Beallara Diana Dunn (compot several plants), vuylstekeara cambria plush 4n (seedling), Hamelwellsara June 'Indigo Blue', Miltonia Aztec 'Toni', Onc. Splinter (big tree fern mount and other piece in semi-hydro hydroton), Onc. Sharry Baby 'Sweet Fragrance', Wilsonara Bonne Nuit x Odcdm Tiger Hambuhren, Odont. Anna Claire 'Floriculture', Oda Cornelia 'Distinctive' x Odcm Tiger Hambuhren 'Goldilocks' AM/AOS, Odontonia Tropical Heatwave 'Everglades', Oda Shelley 'Mt. Beenak', Cochlioda noezliana x vulcania, Colmanara Wildcat Everlasting, Howeara Lava Burst seedlings. Miltoniopsis Oriental(?), Miltassia Dennis Kleinbach Crowhurst,

Others:
Phals: Phalaenopsis Purple Gem, Phalaenopsis Malibu Madonna, miniature; Phalaenopsis Anna-Larati Soekardi (very miniature), Phalaenopsis Be Tris , Phalaenopsis Chingruey's Goldstaff, Phalaenopsis Jiaho Kitty Face,

Brassia verrucosa, Ondontoglossum lindenii, Lemboglossum bictoniense,

Aerangis platyphylla, Aerangis ellisii x Aerangis modesta, Angraceum dideri, Angraecum elephantinum (all mounted corkbark),

Rangaeris amaniensis,

Diplocaulobium fariniferum, Rossioglossum grande

Gongora bufonia, Gongora armeniaca, unknown gongora,

Encyclia garciana,

Coelogynes (flaccidia, ovalis, nitidia, cristata)

Various maxillaria; tenuifolia, variabilis, sanguinolenta, porphyrostele, sophrontis, nigrescens,

Harella retrocalla (4 big seedlings)

Scaphosepalum gibberosum, Scaphosepalum fimbriatum,

Odontoglossum pulchellum (semi-hydro in perlite)

Isochilus aurantiacus,

Paph. Startler glace x pure spirit

Paph. glaucopar

Paph. esquirole

Panesia uniflora

Cadetia taylori

Stanhopea nigroviolacea

Bulbophyllum ambrosia

Dryadella albicans, Dryadella zebrina

various masdevallia hybrids/species - caesia, angulata, triangularis, infracta,

various pleurothallis (mostly mounted), restrepias (mostly mounted), stelis mounted, zootrophion mounted, broms, ferns, begonias, crypanthus,

Of course these can't all fit and some might be inappropriate completely because the spikes or leaves get too big (other dimensions of the case are 92cm long and 46cm wide).

The top 92cm x 92cm back wall will have capillary matting over corktiles while the bottom already has corktiles on it (from when it was a fishtank) with java moss growing fed by occasional dripwall.

Most plants if not already mounted or if I need to move them, will get mounted onto the capillary mat or on cork bark or maybe on (fake) branches.

Lots of seedlings/small plants will fit in but obviously as they get bigger they might get too big or too competitive?

I think what I'm going to have to do is a) write down the length of flower spikes of each plant b) place a measurement on the outside from top to bottom so that c) I can move the plant up or down depending on light requirements and flower spike length requirements.


Other plants that I like that I thought could go in but don't have (but could get):

Porroglossum portillae $25.00
Pleuro gargantua B $25.00
Masdevallia erinacea $100.00
Dracula fuligifera $35.00
Dracula simia $35.00


Porroglossum teaguei $25.00 /$20.00 (MT.B.)
Masd. Tovarensis $25.00
Oncidium Twinkle 'Fragrant Fantasy' $16.50

Mystacidium brayboniae mounted $10.00
Paph Delenatii $7.00
Oncidium (Psychopsis) Mendenhall (Papilio x Butterfly) $7.00

Macodes petola, telipogon, lepanthes etc (though I've never seen any of these in sale in Vic. Australia)

[Paul Mc]

Oh WOW!!! That vocation is going to be amazing!!!!

And tons of questions, lol...

I can tell you that the Vandas you mentioned get quite large. The Princess one I've seen was about 2 feet tall and seems to get bigger every year I've seen it back at the society's show n tell table. The Vandas at the MO Botanical Gardens are actually between 4 to 5 feet tall!!!!

You'll want to give them some space at the top, but you can always prune them back as give away the clippings. You'll need to cut so that each section has several roots to support it, but I personally haven't done this yet so am not the best guide on this.

[Paul Mc]

Vivarium, not vocation, lol...

[Paul Mc]

One side note from reading your list though... You need to take into consideration the temperature ranges each one prefers. Most Vandas want warmth while Masdie's and Drac's want cooler temperatures. I'm not sure how the temperature in this set up would work for every one you've described. You'll need to measure and monitor the temps in various places before deciding what to put in there.

Just a friendly thought...

[isurus79]

Sounds like really cool grow area! Paul is right on the temperature tolerances though. You might want to try experimenting with different groups of plants before you spend a fortune on a whole lot of plants that may or may not do so well.