Need help with Fish

[The Orchid Boy]

Hello everyone! I know most people here on Orchid Board are orchid people of course but I need some help with my 10 gallon aquarium.

For about 3 months my aquarium would get cloudy overnight and I would progressively change the water till it was clear. Then just about a week ago it stopped getting cloudy. I had 1 male betta & 3 female bettas. One of them started swimming funny and sideways for a day and then died. Then I noticed a small white bump on one of my female betta's 'nose.' I assumed it was a fungal infection and I treeated her twice and it isn't going away. What could have caused the cloudy water? What do I do to make the fungal infection go away?

I have tried other fish and they all die in just a week or two. I researched forever on each fish that I tried. I set the tank up, cycled it, tested it it and everything seemed and still seems perfect. I am just about ready to give up.
I need some help.

Don't tell me anything about how male and female bettas can't be together. They have been living peacefully together for over a year. There are two many myths about bettas! They are also abused way too much.

---------- Post added at 10:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------

I tested the water myself and had it tested by a fish store. The levels of everything and the temperatures, pH ect. are all perfect. I used a mixture of hard and soft well water and the fish store said that that's fine to use. I have been using it fr a year and the bettas were fine till now.

[merkity]

not sure on the water, could it be something from a filter? if you are adding water on a frequent basis - then maybe the cloudy is just the natural water cycle. white spots all over fish body usually = ick.

gravel? maybe there is a chemical in water reacting with the substrate?

small tanks are tough things can go wrong so quickly.

[Discus]

A 10 gallon tank would be OK for that number of fish (assuming you only have bettas in there).

Cloudiness like that is almost always from a bacterial bloom - did you test ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, and what were the levels?

Is the cloudiness still recurring?
What substrate do you have?

How much, what and how often do you feed?

When you say "soft" well water, how do you know it is "soft"? Or is it well water that has been passed through a softener?

When you try adding fish other than bettas, how many do you add at once? (and what?).

Can we please see a good picture of the afflicted betta? Also, most bettas only really live a year or two

---------- Post added at 09:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 AM ----------

In fact, please give us the levels of everything you've tested

[The Orchid Boy]

I have only bettas in there. Ammonia and nitrite have been zero ever since it cycled. Nitrate levels are around 20ppm. I check levels weekly. The cloudiness all of a sudden stopped a few weeks ago. I use gravel. I feed them mainly dried bloodworms and feed once a day, 6 days a week. The week water passes through a softener. I tried adding 3 or 4 miniture or Pygmy cories when I just had 1 male betta. They all died within a month and the levels of everything stayed the same. They would be fine one day and dead the next. I will add a picture of the betta when I can. It is very hard to get a good picture of her. It is like a small white bump on her 'nose' and it is nowhere else on her body. I know that bettas don't live a long time. I try to pick the smallest bettas so they live longer in my care. Thank you so much for your help.

[Leafmite]

How are the mosquito larva processed? Might they sometimes carry bacteria from a host? I had trouble with some of the purchased larva and was constantly treating my fish. For a while, then, while still really into the bettas, I raised brine shrimp for them to enjoy along with the smallest available pellets (they don't have as much trouble gulping these down). Had a nice brine shrimp colony going in a south facing window for many years. My bettas never had a problem after I quit using the bloodworms. Now I just have one so I don't raise the shrimp any more.
The only other thing I question is the water. The softened water shouldn't hurt them (mine never had a problem) but what else is in it?
Good luck solving your problem.
Leafmite

---------- Post added at 02:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:56 AM ----------

I see that I accidently said host. Was thinking of the mature mosquito. But the larva might be picking up stuff if the water quality in which they live isn't carefully controlled. I am not sure how the larva are procured for the pet industry, if it is in a controlled setting, out in the open, or gathered.
Leafmite

[Discus]

You should never use water that has gone through a softener for fish (or orchids!); most of them work on an ion exchange resin that puts sodium ions into the water, which is not good for either your fish or your plants. You'd usually be better off with straight tap water than softened water; if you can collect rainwater or have an RO unit, these are both good sources, but watch out as pure RO water can be a little bit too pure for fish (many people mix their tap water with RO for freshwater fish; some add a little bit of a chemical buffer designed for this purpose [I vaguely recall one product being called "RO Right" or something along those lines]).

It's entirely possible that there is now too much sodium (or another ion) in the water that is hammering the fish's health - try not using the softened water and see how it goes.

[The Orchid Boy]

My parents have a tank and use only softened water and the fish are fine. All the water inside the house is softened. I have to go outside to get hard water that is cold. I mix it with warm softened water until it's the right temperature.
Here's a picture of the betta...

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

1. How long was the tank cycled for?

2. Where did you buy your fish from?

3. Were the fish quarantined/treated for parasites or disease prior to introducing them to the show tank?

4. When talking about water parameters, please post the numerical values of each pertinent parameter.

5. To find out what a certain problem is through the process of elimination, you just may have to suck it up and listen to other people's advice regarding not using softened water. Particularly if they've been successfully doing it for many years.

6. The bloodworms may be carrying bacteria or protozoans on them if they were poorly processed or if they were sold to you as a live food.

I recommend cleaning them properly.

Also check the expiration date on frozen foods if applicable. Do not feed frozen foods that have been around for more than 1 year. There are increased risks for using frozen foods the older the food is.

7. I do not recommend adding new fish at the moment, particularly tetras.

Note: While I'm no betta expert by any means, I am an avid tetra keeper. To keep things short and to the point, just trust me when I say, "No tetras as new companion fish" in your case.

8. How much were you feeding and did you promptly remove any uneaten food?

9. Has the water been dechlorinated? If your area uses chloramines, has the water been treated to make sure there aren't any chloramines in the water?

It is easy to dechlorinate water. An easy, inexpensive, and trouble free way to dechlorinate water is to just let it sit in a container for at least 24 hrs.

Chloramines are different from chlorine and may require a different method to remove.

10. Have you ever at one point fed the fish live tubifex worms?

If so, they need to be cleaned by running them under cool water prior to use.

11. Was the gravel cleaned thoroughly prior to use?

12. Did you cycle your water w/o the use of pre-packaged bacteria or with?

[The Orchid Boy]

The tank was cycled for 2 months.
I bought my fish from Earl May. I don't know if the Earl Mays around you guys are any good my mine is excellent and has very healthy fish.
Yes, they were quarantined for a week.
0ppm Ammonia 0 ppm Nitrites 20 ppm Nitrates ph 7.5
The bloodworms are from Hikari and are freeze dried.
I got the bloodworms recently and it has a long while until the expiration date.
I am feeding just a tiny bit and there is NEVER any uneaten food.
There is no chlorine or chloramines in my water but I use dechlorinater anyways.
I have never fed them live food.
Gravel was thouroughly cleaned.
I cycled it without prepackaged bacteria first and then added some bateria just to be sure.
My main question now is: What is the best way to treat my betta's fungal infection? Is there any brand name thing that you guys use with success?

[isurus79]

Wow, I've kept fish for most of my life, both salt and fresh and I can't think of any thing off the top of my head that could be affecting your fish. (The fact that you use softened water is a bit troublesome, but all your params sound ok. Could you test for salinity? Just a thought).

Bloodworms are typically used only as a treat/supplement for fish. They are very fatty and can cause the same problems for fish as a person who is fed exclusively McDonalds. This could be a problem.

Also, the fact that you see cloudiness at night makes me think of a chemical reaction that could be linked to oxygen. Any plants and algae in the tank will start taking up oxygen at night. This has a two fold effect of a) lowering oxygen (which would not affect the Anabantoids as much as your Corys) and b) increasing carbon dioxide, thus making your water more acidic. Constantly changing water conditions could stress your fish out and cause the more delicate ones to succumb to disease. Can you test your water in the morn just before the lights come on and then again at night just before they go off? You would only need to test pH to see if the oxygen is changing drastically. Also, an oxygen stone would completely render everything I just said as not true. A large swing in pH would also be indicative of lowered buffering capacity from your softened water (a common problem).

P.S. The small fungal problem on your Betta should fix itself after you find what is killing your fish. I usually don't bother treating fungus because healthy fish cure themselves and the medicine to treat fungus will wreak havoc on your bacterial population; which is arguably the most important population of organisms in your tank. If you want to treat her, set up a quarantine tank, maybe a 2.5 gal. That way you won't mess with your bacterial load in the display tank and it will take less medicine to treat, which can be expensive.