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  #11  
Old 08-17-2009, 01:28 AM
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King_of_orchid_growing:) King_of_orchid_growing:) is offline
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Don't take this personally here, but...

Coqui frogs pests? I don't get it. What harm do they cause? Aren't they more harmless than the Green Poison Dart Frogs (Dendrobates auratus)?

I'm confused. Why doesn't the Hawaiian government just ship them back to places like Puerto Rico where they're reportedly very difficult to find in nature nowadays (I was just there a couple years ago on a stop to the Caribbean islands for work related stuff and heard about their plight there). Why the big extermination deal?

I just pulled up an article about someone thinking of steaming these guys to death from plants ready for export to other countries. And the Hawaiian government seems to be allowing it.

Why isn't the Hawaiian government concerned about Dendrobates auratus?

I mean the Coqui are beloved back in places like Puerto Rico. They sell pins as souvenirs with a sad story about habitat loss and possible extinction there. There's even a local legend about them.

Dude, here Americans are talking about protecting animals, plants, and the environment, but we go around exterminating them while not re-introducing them back to their native lands where they're possibly dwindling in numbers.

I don't get it. Is there some sort of info or reason I'm missing?

Last edited by King_of_orchid_growing:); 08-17-2009 at 01:49 AM..
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  #12  
Old 08-17-2009, 01:35 AM
WhiteRabbit WhiteRabbit is offline
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I think the problem is introduced species wreak havoc environmentally - throwing out of kilter the 'natural order'
Some introduced frog species eat the native species - and even if they don't they compete with the natives for dwindling habitat and food sources - thus depleting the native ones
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  #13  
Old 08-17-2009, 01:43 AM
2ljd 2ljd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun rm.N.E. View Post
I ditto Nenella. Do you have any photos of those delightful geckos?

Not sure which geckos you're referring to? We have the Madagascar Day Geckos (both large and small), which I'll try and take a photo of if I see one. The gold dust variety are relatively small and harmless, but the giant day geckos can get to be the size of a rat...kinda scary!
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  #14  
Old 08-17-2009, 01:47 AM
2ljd 2ljd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IraGlacialis View Post
That's good news then.

Are the green-and-black frogs the only kind there, or are there others?
Also, as poison dart frogs get their toxin from their diet, are these ones harmless or still retain some kick to them?
The grenn/black auratus are the only ones that occur in the wild. I know of some folks who keep the other types in captivity. As for their toxin levels, I think after all this time, its actually very low or non-existent. I've sometimes forgotten I'd had a cut and grabed one of them...nothing really in the way of pain.
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  #15  
Old 08-17-2009, 01:50 AM
2ljd 2ljd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:) View Post
Don't take this personally here, but...

Coqui frogs pests? I don't get it. What harm do they cause? Aren't they more harmless than the Green Poison Dart Frogs (Dendrobates auratus)?

I'm confused. Why doesn't the Hawaiian government just ship them back to places like Puerto Rico where they're reportedly very difficult to find in nature nowadays (I was just there a couple years ago on a stop to the Caribbean islands for work related stuff and heard about their plight there). Why the big extermination deal?

I just pulled up an article about someone thinking of steaming these guys to death from plants ready for export to other countries.

I mean they're beloved back in places like Puerto Rico. They sell pins as souvenirs with a sad story about habitat loss and possible extinction there. There's even a local legend about them.

Dude, here Americans are talking about protecting animals, plants, and the environment, but we go around exterminating them while not re-introducing them back to their native lands where they're possibly dwindling in numbers.

I don't get it. Is there some sort of info or reason I'm missing?
I can see where you're coming from...it would make some sense to just send them back. But I guess there's just too much red tape for that. There are some areas of Hawaii where Coqui frogs are so abundant that the sound they make at night is actually quite defening. I mean to the point folks can't even get some sleep. That's really their main problem here...I'm not too sure about ecological damage they cause.
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  #16  
Old 08-17-2009, 01:54 AM
WhiteRabbit WhiteRabbit is offline
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Good to know they don't seem to be a problem
I don't think its quite possible to round them all up to send back ? Can't imagine how that would be done lol
Anyway - love the pix of the dart frogs - theyre beautiful
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  #17  
Old 08-18-2009, 02:07 AM
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King_of_orchid_growing:) King_of_orchid_growing:) is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteRabbit View Post
Good to know they don't seem to be a problem
I don't think its quite possible to round them all up to send back ? Can't imagine how that would be done lol
Anyway - love the pix of the dart frogs - theyre beautiful
Pardon my persistence, but that argument doesn't make sense to me. If they're able to find them and steam them to death. I believe that they'd be able to find them and round them up to send over to Puerto Rico. You can't steam something to death if the target is 20 feet away. And how would it be possible to steam the frogs to death but not damage the plants that were ready for export? If there's such a technology, I sure as heck would like to know about it 'cause that's flippin' cool.

Here's the scenario I think is closer to what the real reason behind the extermination of the Coqui are.

1. The people of Hawaii are aware of the threats an invasive species has on the ecosystem.

Hawaiians are aware of accidental introductions such as those pesky snakes that were killing off the native birds.

Also, mistakes of introducing animals like the mongoose, which pretty much helped either directly or indirectly wipe out many of Hawaii's native species of birds, or at least threatened certain species to the brink of extinction instead of controlling the accidentally introduced snake species like it was originally intended, left a bad taste in people's mouths (or at least those who care or remember such things).

Stuff like this lingers. Especially if the mistake doesn't go away (which, from my understanding hasn't). It can be embarrassing.

2. If the Coqui produce mating calls in great numbers that are so loud that they make people lose sleep, and if I were one of those people, man I'd be pissed too.

Generally speaking, obviously people who are exhausted or angry don't have the patience or the energy to think clearly about anything.

If I were in that position, I could understand why people would say, "F--k those Coqui, I want them gone!"

3. The Coqui are not as colorful or attractive as the Green Poison Dart Frog (I love dart frogs btw).

4. Their numbers also seem to have boomed which went against the notion that their population would be maintained at an acceptable level (by human standards).

5. Money. From what I understand, there's more money involved in their extermination rather than in efforts of relocation.

6. No one in Hawaii wants to introduce any supposed natural predators of the Coqui because historically speaking that kind of stuff never worked, so I totally understand this.

I dunno, if it were me, I'd try to stay calm and level, and say something to the effect of this...

I know realistically speaking that it'd be very difficult to totally eradicate all the Coqui from the islands of Hawaii. I also understand they're bugging the living cr@p out of me and other people in Hawaii the way they are. But Puerto Ricans love them and that's their natural habitat. They might actually have natural predators there too. Why don't a group of people and I make the efforts to send them from Hawaii where they seem to be flourishing like no other, to Puerto Rico where the local populations are suffering. Whatever's left in Hawaii, I'll just have to live with, oh well...

Who knows, this might be an opportunity to start great public relations between a US state with a US territory. Might lead to something good later down the line. Sounds like a win-win.

Last edited by King_of_orchid_growing:); 08-18-2009 at 02:41 AM..
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  #18  
Old 08-18-2009, 02:31 AM
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Aside from the serious stuff I've been talking about, this post makes me want to save up for a Dart Frog tank.

Last edited by King_of_orchid_growing:); 08-18-2009 at 02:42 AM..
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  #19  
Old 08-18-2009, 08:02 PM
2ljd 2ljd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:) View Post
Aside from the serious stuff I've been talking about, this post makes me want to save up for a Dart Frog tank.
You should definitely set up a dart frog tank...you could put some orchids in there too.
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