Save my phal: Clear soft spots on new leaves?

[theloyalplum]

Hi Everyone! Tis be a day or sadness.

I need help IDing and finding a solution a problem that's been bugging me for a few weeks now. My phal bellina's new leaves are showing clear, watery spots (that start as small white specks) that spread and spread. Pictured here:


I've tried cutting away a good amount into healthy tissue (sterilization's a given), also Physan 20 in case it was fungal (perhaps it still is?).

I'm worried. Another one of my phals has shown the same problem. I've quarantined them in the meantime. Any help is very welcome.

[jkofferdahl]

What are your night temperatures? Does water ever sit on the leaves at night? Do you have Phals other than bellina and are they showing similar damage?

[theloyalplum]

Originally Posted by jkofferdahl

What are your night temperatures? Does water ever sit on the leaves at night? Do you have Phals other than bellina and are they showing similar damage?

Night temps are regularly around 68F. I never water at night - I also thought it was a stagnant water issue, but it continues to spread. The only phals that are affected thus far are my bellina/violacea/hybrid of the two.

[jkofferdahl]

Interesting. I asked because bellina/violacea are especially susceptible to cold. Just a few days below their minumum CAN cause leaf damage, or at least some discoloration. 68 degrees, though, is certainly warm enough - mine have nights into the lower 60s and are quite hale and hearty.

I would continue to approach these plants as if they're somehow infected with a fungus/bacteria of some sort. Physan 20 is a great choice to use. One application may not knock it all out, though, so be patient. I'm not, however, utterly convinced that the issue is this. Having lived in a house which used to have cats (welcomed) and now has mice (MOST unwelcomed) I've seen physical damage that resembles the damage in your photo. Thus, while treating, I would also be looking at environmental possibilities.

[Ray]

It may be a fungal or bacterial infection. Physan is of little help, as that is topical only. I suggest looking for a systemic treatment like Cleary's 3336 or Phyton 27.

[theloyalplum]

Originally Posted by jkofferdahl

Interesting. I asked because bellina/violacea are especially susceptible to cold. Just a few days below their minumum CAN cause leaf damage, or at least some discoloration. 68 degrees, though, is certainly warm enough - mine have nights into the lower 60s and are quite hale and hearty.

I would continue to approach these plants as if they're somehow infected with a fungus/bacteria of some sort. Physan 20 is a great choice to use. One application may not knock it all out, though, so be patient. I'm not, however, utterly convinced that the issue is this. Having lived in a house which used to have cats (welcomed) and now has mice (MOST unwelcomed) I've seen physical damage that resembles the damage in your photo. Thus, while treating, I would also be looking at environmental possibilities.

Same! Mine made it through some dry 58F nights this winter and still grew strong. Just recently though... I'm on weekly treatments of physan right now, but will probably go systemic. Thanks for your help!

Originally Posted by Ray

It may be a fungal or bacterial infection. Physan is of little help, as that is topical only. I suggest looking for a systemic treatment like Cleary's 3336 or Phyton 27.

Thanks, Ray! I have Cleary's. I'm trying to stay away from copper - the sole reason being that I have a good number of dendrobiums. Do you know of an alternative that is Den-safe?

[Orchid Whisperer]

Erwinia. (bacterial infection).

Cut again. Isolate. Keep plant DRY, no water at all, for a couple weeks. This wont hurt an otherwise healthy plant. Afterward, wipe all leaf surfaces with hydrogen peroxide or disinfectant of your choice. If no other spots appear after 2 or 3 days, resume CAREFUL watering weekly. If you are not already doing so, start providing calcium to the plant on a regular basis. Water more often than weekly when you feel you are out of the woods.

[Ray]

If that infection has a really bad odor, I would agree with erwinia, and if that's the case, Clearys will be of no value, as it's a fungicide, not a bactericide.

Isolate the plants and treat with copper. I'd recommend the Inocucor product I sell, as I've cured erwinia with it, but I'm out-of-town until Tuesday, so it may be too late by the time I could ship.

[Sharon's Sheepdogs]

Watery brown spots on phal leaves usually indicate a bacterial infection. Commercial growers of phals use a copper product, Kocide. However, it is very expensive so Phyton 27 might be your best option. However, when using Phyton 27, it is very important that you follow the directions as to the recommended pH before application. Also, as you mentioned, it is not recommended for use on Dendrobiums.

Other suggestions for treatment include Physan 20 and Hydrogen Peroxide. Unfortunately, there is concern that Physan 20 strips the natural oils from the leaves which actually predisposes the orchid to disease. Instead, it is recommended that 1 to 1.5 tsp. of Physan 20 should be added to each gallon of water as a preventative and used to water the roots only. I follow this recommendation and have not developed a case of crown rot in my phals since doing so.

Hydrogen peroxide has been found to be helpful in stopping bacterial infections. However, since it is spreading to your other phals, you will probably need Phyton 27. I would recommend you separate your phals from your other orchids & then separate your diseased from your healthy phals. Cut one inch below the spot on your infected phals. Make sure you use a disinfected or new blade for each cut and wash your hands so you don't transfer the bacteria.

After you cut, pour hydrogen peroxide on the cut and then seal with cinnamon or sulfur. Do this for at least 3 days in a row. Hopefully, this will stop the infection. If not, try Phyton 27. You can spray the entire orchid with hydrogen peroxide and into the crown. After 5 min., tilt the orchid on its side so it drains out of the crown.You can then pour it through the media. Make sure you do this early in the day so it's completely dry before night.You should also wash your growing area down with bleach water. For specific recommendations, I suggest you also read the following:

The Ruinous Rots - Part 1- St. Augustine Orchid Society (just Google and the pdf should come up)

Bacteria | Oregon Orchid Society

Let us know if this helps.