Phal Bellina Yellow Spots

[Manu]

Originally Posted by estación seca

I think there is a problem between Google Drive images and the software OB runs on. I'm unable to right-click (long-click, actually) on the links on my Android phone, though I can see the URLs as I type this.

If you switch to desktop view on your android phone web browser I think it should work.

Do you know of any other sites I can used that will work?

Here's a link to the album in google drive hope I'm allowed to post a url..

Update your browser to use Google Drive - Drive Help

[estación seca]

From my desktop I can right-click on the broken link, copy the image address to clipboard, paste the link into a new brower tab and see your photos. What happens when you edit your post and remove the [im g] and [/im g] tags?

My long-dormant microbiologist self tells me your orchids must have an infection, with margins advancing from the initial colony. I would guess it's a fungus. I would try different systemic fungicides one by one.

Earlier there was a pH discussion. You were concerned the pH was too low when mixing your fertilizer with your Mg supplement in your RO water. In commercial agriculture magnesium and calcium supplementation is given in different waterings from the other nutrients, for reasons of stability. I would fertilize in one application and supplement with Ca and Mg in a different application. You reported your fertilizer solution pH was fine. What is the pH of solely your Ca and Mg supplement in RO water?

[Manu]

Thanks for looking :-) I'll try what you suggested for the images. So you're thinking fungus? Why would it only develop once the leaf matures?

I'm getting​ a stable 6.5 reading by mixing 2.5ml of the orchid pro fertilizer with 2.5 ml of Mag Pro and 5 ml of Protekt for 1 gallon of water.

If I mix only the fertilizer I fall to ph around 6.2 by adding the mag pro then falls to about 5.5, the protekt brings it back to up 6.5. I don't remember the value of the mag pro in RO value, but can check if it adds any value?

[Sharon's Sheepdogs]

Manu, I only have a few minutes this evening so I will have to respond further tomorrow. I just looked at the photos of your phal bellina that you recently posted. I see it is in spike. I'm back to thinking you have a nutrient or mineral deficiency because I can now see in these photos the yellow edges on the leaves.

Symptoms of a Potassium deficiency include "Lower leaves may be mottled; dead areas near tips and margins of leaves; yellowing at leaf margins continuing toward center." Very similar symptoms to a Magnesium deficiency.The problem is that it may actually be too much Potassium which I will have to explain later.

The orchid might be stressed by attempting to flower with a deficiency. It might be moving it's nutrients/ minerals around within the plant attempting to compensate for the deficiency which is causing a mottling type chlorosis in the leaves.

For the time being, please don't try to supplement your possible magnesium deficiency with "Mag Pro." This supplement is a bloom booster and contains high levels of Phosphorus, Magnesium & Sulfur. Just use epsom salts for the time being to improve the magnesium levels but start out using just a little and see if the plant shows signs of improvement. Do not include the epsom salts with your regular fertilizer. Use it separately. I will try to get back to you on this tomorrow.

[Manu]

Thanks for your response Sharon. To clarify, the spike you see is the one from last year. I don't see any action on it yet. And I do not see any new spike emerging from the base. It should be any time now unless it postpones blooming due to its current condition.

[Sharon's Sheepdogs]

Manu,

As my last post indicated, I really do believe your phal bellina is suffering a nutrient deficiency & not a fungus. Since you are watering with an RO system, I would recommend that you switch your fertilizer to MSU for pure water and that you water "weekly weakly" and flush the pots on a regular basis.

I use distilled water with MSU as my fertilizer. MSU is the only fertilizer developed for use in pure water. Other fertilizers were formulated with the assumption that many people are adding it to their tap water which already contains many nutrients. Instead of formulating for different types of growers, they only formulate one for the average grower so their fertilizer might not be sufficent enough for those using pure water. RO systems qualify as a purified water system so there is nothing in the water that would provide any nutrients to your orchids. It is also why testing your pH is more important when using purified water because there is a tendency for the pH to swing in both directions because there are no nutrients in the water that act as a buffer.

Although there was a time when orchid growers believed there was a need to use a bloom booster on their orchids certain times of the year, from what I understand this has been determined not to be necessary. Instead, it is the reduction in nitrogen which has been found to stimulate blooming, not the addition of phosphorus found in bloom boosters.

I am unsure how familar you are with how nutrients move within a plant, that some nutrients are mobile and some are not, and that some act as a buffer which means one is competing with the other. For example, an excess of Nitrogen (Antagonizer) can lead to a deficiency in Postassium (Antagonizee) and vice versa. An excess of Potassium (Antagonizer) can block the absorption of Nitrogen, Calcium, Magnesium, Zinc and Iron (All Antgonizees). An excess of Calcium (Antagonizer) can lead to a deficiency in Magnesium (Antagonizee) and vice versa.

Another cause of deficiencies can be cultural. For example, Calcium only moves upward through a plant and once in the tissues, it cannot be translocated even if a deficiency develops elsewhere. It is moved upward through the plant in the transpiration stream through the xylem. If your humidity levels are too high, this can prevent transpiration of water in the orchid which can then prevent the calcium from reaching all of the cells of the plant which leads to a deficiency in calcium. You end with symptoms which include the browning of the tips of your leaves on new growth which are similar symptoms to black rot. So now you've got to figure out which one it is.

So, even though MSU provides both Macro & Micronutrients, your cultural practices can also affect the absorption of key nutrients which may lead to deficiencies.

If you still see symptoms of a magnesium deficiency after using MSU for a lengthy period of time, you can add CalMag (not MagPro) to your water once a month.You must still check your pH before application. I only do this in the very early spring for several months and then stop. Additional calcium in the early spring is thought to protect the orchid against black rot. I do not add the CalMag to my regular fertilizer because again, too much of one nutrient can create competition among the other nutrients and sometimes that causes a nutrient to be absorbed in toxic levels which can kill your orchid.

It's a lot more trickier than most people realize which is why I believe it would be beneficial for you to switch to MSU as long as you continue to use a RO system. That way, if problems develop it will be easier to rule outnutrient deficiencies.

I know you have probably already done so, but I would also suggest you go to the "First Ray's" website and read all of the articles related to feeding orchids and the addition of nutrients. I have always found rereading it reminds me of a lot of stuff I've forgotten over the years.

Good luck!

[Manu]

I should of mentioned this before... But about 1 month ago I stopped the RO water except for my few Dracula's.

I now use plain tap water that I let sit for 48 hours to let the chlorine escape. I test ph every time I mix everything to ensure its right in the optimal 6.5 to 6.9 range

All my other plants seem to be doing well including many other species with similar needs that I've owned as long or longer then the bellina. I'm getting shorter leaves then before but this is probably due to do with the new lighting conditions...

The greenhouse I got this from had a bunch of Phal species with similar spots as mine. He sent one to a laboratory for full testing and supposedly got the results back this week... I'll go see him next week, he initially thought it was a virus... Tbc

[Manu]

Just wanted to share an update in case someone has a similar issue and reads this at some point in time.

I bring the plant with me at Montreal Botanical Garden, they inspected it and found that this is most likely a virused plant. They came to this conclusion after inspecting for insect damage and found none, not a bacterial or fungal issue and based on the fact that the damage moves from older tissue towards newer one. They explained that a virus cannot develop in immature cells. Since my plant grows a new leaf that is 100% clean as long as it is growing, but immediately after it matures it displays the yellow spot, should be a good indication that this is in fact virus.

Makes sense right​? Fungal or bacterial issues would impact all tissue, regardless of if cells are mature or not. Same for insects, they love tender new growths lol...

So what do you think?

They say that at garden they destroy a plant that shows those symptoms right away. I think I'll do the same.... But it just pushed out 3 spikes and blooms are right around the corner!! Isolate it and enjoy their amazing fragrance one last time?? This plant is growing quicker then ever new leaves, roots, spikes, I just can't seem to accept I need to trash it! :-(

[estación seca]

It may be a virus, and their reasoning is very suggestive. But without a definite test you cannot be sure. If it is a plant of great sentimental value to you, is there any way you could test it for common viruses? I know virus test strips are available in the US.

You might also try to use keiki paste on a bloom stalk to see whether you can propagate a plant free of this problem.

[Manu]

I agree their reasoning is questionable. But if you think about it, if there is no insects, that they confirm it's not fungal or bacterial, what else is there? The damage is getting way to heavy to blame mineral deficiency and all other similar plants are doing great with the same regimen.

It tested negative using the agdia test strips, but that's only for. Cymbidium Mosaic Virus and Odontoglossum ringspot virus

But it could be so many other viruses...

Sentimental value yes and no. I think you just made me realize it's just a plant after all... And I just received a bellina alba, Violacea coerulea and amabilis variegated, that should cheer me up