Phal Bellina Yellow Spots

[Manu]

Ok so there seems to be a general consensus that this would be caused by magnesium deficiency, which is really reassuring as I can easily fix that! Looking at the images in the link provided, I do notice those spots on some of my potted Phals that get a lot less attention and can easily see it being a small lack of minerals. I’ll definitively add Magnesium to every watering for all my plants going forward.

However, I still feel like my Phal Bellina spotting is a bit more severe then what I see when searching mineral deficiency photos. Also, it gets regularly fertilized with Dyna-Gro Orchid Pro™ 7-8-6 which contains many trace elements including Magnesium and Calcium.

The analysis of Dyna-Gro Orchid Pro™ 7-8-6 is:

Total Nitrogen (N) ……. 7.0%*
Ammoniacal (NH4)……. 2.6%
Nitrate (NO3) …………. 4.4%
Phosphorus (P2O5) …… 8.0%*
Potassium (K2O) ……… 6.0%*
Calcium (Ca) ………….. 2.0%*
Magnesium (Mg) …. 0.5%*
Sulfur (S) …………. 0.05%
Boron (B) …………. 0.02%*
Chlorine (Cl) ……… 0.1%*
Cobalt (Co) ……….. 0.0015%*
Copper (Cu) ……..… 0.05%*
Iron (Fe) ………………. 0.1%*
Manganese (Mn) ……. 0.05%*
Molybdenum (Mo) …. 0.0009%*
Nickel (Ni) ………….. 0.0001%
Sodium (Na) ………….. 0.1%*
Zinc (Zn) ………………. 0.05%*

I use this fertilizer mixed at a Ratio of 2ml/US Gallon of Reverse Osmosis water. Occasionally use regular tap water which is of very good quality here. I use it in 1 of 2 watering on my mounted Phals which is about once every other day to allow minerals to wash away. Is this quantity of Mg not sufficient at a point where the leave could deteriorate that much?

I also have Dyna-Gro Mag-Pro® 2-15-4 which was told is used as a bloom booster. I would normally start using it in conjunction with the other fertilizer when the plant is about ready to set spikes and keep using until flowering is over. I was actually about to start that regimen with my summer bloomers.

The Analysis of Mag-Pro® 2-15-4 is:

Total Nitrogen (N) ……. 2.0%
Ammoniacal (NH4) …… 1.1%
Nitrate (NO3) …………. 0.9%
Phosphorus (P2O5) …… 15.0%
Potassium (K2O) …. 4.0%
Magnesium (Mg) … 2.0%
Sulfur (S) …………. 1.5%

I would normally add about 2.5ml/US Gallon of water (mixed with equal quantity of the other fertilizer).

So at this point, I’m wondering can this P Bellina actually be suffering from Mineral deficiency knowing the quantity and concentration of minerals it is currently getting? And is the Mag-Pro suitable product? What quantity and frequency? I don’t want to end up with Mineral toxicity either!! Thanks 

[Sharon's Sheepdogs]

Do you check the pH of yor fertilizer before application? Since you are watering with a RO system, all nutrients must be provided. To make sure the nutrients are being taken up by the root system, the fertilizer pH should be checked before application. You are looking for a range of 6.5 to 6.9 for orchids. If your pH is not in that range, some nutrients might be taken up and some might not be. If the orchid receives too much of one nutrient such as potassium, you can block the uptake of other nutrients such as calcium & magnesium.

So far, everywhere I've looked indicates the yellow mottling of leaves results from a magnesium deficiency. Of course, spider mites could cause a similar pattern but I understand you have ruled that out.

I am listing three websites below which may help you determine if your fertilization regiment is sufficient. The first site provides numerous charts listing leaf symptoms & the possible nutritional deficiencies those symptoms indicate. I like the 'Nutritional Deficiency Flowchart-Old & New Leaves-Chlorosis & Necrosis' which lists mottling as a symptom:

Plant Nutrient Deficiency Leaf Illustrations and Charts Reference Guide | Big Picture Agriculture

The second is titled "Watering & Fertilizing Orchids" by Steven A. Frownie & explains how to read the fertilizer label:

Watering and Fertilizing Orchids

The third is an article "Cattleyas - What Can Go Wrong, Part 1 Cultural Missteps" written by Sue Bottom, St. Augustine Orchid Society, which includes a discussion of calcium & magnesium deficiencies in orchids:

Orchid Culture Articles - Sue Bottom

Hopefully other members of this forum can also assist with other ideas that might help identify the problem your phalaenopsis is experiencing.

[Leafmite]

I had this same issue with the last two bellinas I tried to grow and lost both. When I noticed the leaves of these two beginning to lighten in some areas (which is how it began last time) I tried the Epsom salts and the leaves have remained green. I have other plants so I have some good 'houseplant' books that have been a great resource. As the Epsom Salts worked in my case, I suggested that you might have the same problem. As said, it might be that the pH is interfering with the absorption of nutrients.

But, if you think you have a decent pH and the nutrients are good, how are your temperatures?

PS. I use an MSU formula for rainwater (Since 2012). I bought Cali Magic this past autumn, around the time when the spotting began. My medium is red lava rock.

Good luck!

[Manu]

Ok you guys are great thanks I think you're on to something with the Ph. I naively assumed that if my water was at a good Ph that after I add the fertilizer it would still be OK.

My tap water and RO tests at around 6.8 using my Spa test strips.

It's not the most precise thing but it's all I have at this time. I'm gonna order something on Amazon tonight.

Just tested after I add the dyna-gro orchid pro at rate of 1/2 tsp per gallon and Ph drops to approximately 6.2.

Added the Mag-Pro at recommended 1 tsp per gallon and tested PH and all I can say is its below 6.2 cause that's where the chart ends.

At this point, I guess I need to get a proper meter and raise the Ph. Probably some easily accessible products out there?

The MSU you guys say you use, would solve that issue?

I went with dynagro simply cause KLN gave me amazing results but wouldnt wind switching.

[Leafmite]

The pH is probably good as long as it is above six. The reason I mentioned a magnesium deficiency was because it seemed to fit and that was what was happening with my own Phals. To be honest, it can be very difficult to deduce what exactly is happening with someone else's plant without knowing all the details of the growing methods.

To be helpful, here are some nutritional guidelines:

http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/UHMG/Wes...PTOM-CHART.pdf

Plant Deficiencies | Urban Gardens Ohio

I am not sure if you mentioned temperatures or lighting for your orchids. Too low of a temperature or too high of light can also cause this type of spotting. Too high of light can do it, too. Some plants are sensitive to water temperature (the reason I always bring my water to room temperature before using it).

Good luck! I think, between Sharon's Sheepdogs's links and everyone else's suggestions, you should be able to make your Phals happy again.

[estación seca]

It can take a long time to fix magnesium deficiency, even when applied with every watering. Also, I don't see that you've mentioned your temperatures - bellina is a very warm growing plant. Vandas show magnesium problems more in cooler temperatures, and Phalaenopsis are in the same alliance.

[Manu]

Temperature for day is 24-26C and night 20-22C. In the summer it can get up to 30C day and 26C nights.

As for lighting, we'll that is a bit complex to answer! As mentioned I had to give up my previous growing space for our newest son. The shelves I'm using now we're setup on a wall I thought was getting good light, but after a few days there noticed it was way too low of a light. That's why I said they were getting close to no light from November to January.

I built a lighting system which uses "full spectrum" CFL lights. Based on my research this is what would give the best results and so far I have to agree. Everything is growing very nicely, the 65W equivalent bulbs are about 6 to 10 inches fromy the plants
. I even have some summer bloomers already in bloom. My tetraspis c#1 is in bloom. Cornu Cervi red is starting. Luedemaniana same. My Catasetums are starting new shoots... etc etc etc. I even see some minor some burn on my Equestris. Some red tint on my lindenii and roots in general. They are not getting too little light anymore (based on growth and colors) and as per my light meter they aren't getting too much either... if 10 LUX is equal 1 FC my Phal are getting between 400 and 1000 FC. I'm still adjusting everything and moving stuff around. But based on growth and flowering that part seems well restored. Added a pic of my lighting system. Was a bit complex as I can't screw anything to my ceiling (they are heated) and this is in the living room so it needed to look somewhat nice. I like the result. It's controlled by a timer switch and is on for 13 hours a day. It does also receive some natural light towards the end of the day and I predict that will increase in time and quatity as days get longer and the sun higher.

[Manu]

So pH above 6 is acceptable? So 6 to 6.9 would be my target range?

I ordered a pH meter last night to get an exact figure as all I can say is it seems to be below 6.2 based on my Pool test strips with the fertilizer and Magnesium added. 6.8 with plain water.

People using MSU (that's from Ray's??) Do you have any pH issues?? Do you need to use a pH+ to get to a proper range? I'm almost done with my Orchid Pro fertilizer from Dyna-Gro and open to a change if it's for better :-).

Originally Posted by Leafmite

The pH is probably good as long as it is above six. The reason I mentioned a magnesium deficiency was because it seemed to fit and that was what was happening with my own Phals. To be honest, it can be very difficult to deduce what exactly is happening with someone else's plant without knowing all the details of the growing methods.

To be helpful, here are some nutritional guidelines:

http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/UHMG/Wes...PTOM-CHART.pdf

Plant Deficiencies | Urban Gardens Ohio

I am not sure if you mentioned temperatures or lighting for your orchids. Too low of a temperature or too high of light can also cause this type of spotting. Too high of light can do it, too. Some plants are sensitive to water temperature (the reason I always bring my water to room temperature before using it).

Good luck! I think, between Sharon's Sheepdogs's links and everyone else's suggestions, you should be able to make your Phals happy again.

[Leafmite]

I like your set up! What a great way to grow orchids! Your temperatures sound good.

I found that with the MSU (for rainwater), I still wasn't getting enough Calcium for some of my orchids. I suffered some signs of Calcium deficiency after I switched to it and I had to begin adding additional Calcium. (I grow Angraecums and Cattleyas which tend to like quite a bit of Calcium). I use it for all of my plants and, a couple of months ago, I saw some signs of magnesium deficiency so I gave my plants a good dose of epsom salts. I think those are the only issues I have with what I am using. It might be the brand of MSU fertilizer I am using, too. No idea.

[Manu]

Yeah I really like my setup... I had to do something that looked good enough for my wife to let me set this up in the living room, she's quite happy with the result. It was a lot of work and in the end also somewhat expensive, but there is nothing like custom hand made things IMO. It's also really rewarding when you see the plants enjoying it and thriving (except for my Bellina, but the issues came before the setup). This morning I just noticed my haraella retrocalla with a bud about to open, that one never really did much until the lights were turned on, now full of roots, new spikes and a bud opening!!

Let me ask you, what is your pH like before you add fertilizer? Rain Water should be around 5.5 right? So your fertilizer acts as a pH+ at the same time I must assume?

How important is the pH? Am I causing trouble if around 6? I thought Orchids were acid loving plants? Ecuagenera even suggested I use only pure rain water for my few draculas... Should I get some pH+ to get it closer to 6.5-6.9 range?

I always overlooked the effect of fertilizer on the pH. I naively assumed that fertilizer specially formulated for Orchids made by a 'reputable' cie (correct me if I'm wrong about Dyna-Gro) would provide an acceptable pH when mixed to water that is good.

Seems as Dyna-Gro Orchid-Pro and Mag-Pro both act as a pH- seeing that my water drops from 6.8 to below 6.2...

Once more, to everyone who took the time to read and answer me I'm so thankful :-) I love this forum such a great resource and everyone is always so nice :-)

Originally Posted by Leafmite

I like your set up! What a great way to grow orchids! Your temperatures sound good.

I found that with the MSU (for rainwater), I still wasn't getting enough Calcium for some of my orchids. I suffered some signs of Calcium deficiency after I switched to it and I had to begin adding additional Calcium. (I grow Angraecums and Cattleyas which tend to like quite a bit of Calcium). I use it for all of my plants and, a couple of months ago, I saw some signs of magnesium deficiency so I gave my plants a good dose of epsom salts. I think those are the only issues I have with what I am using. It might be the brand of MSU fertilizer I am using, too. No idea.