Leaf problems on D. loddigesii and M. minuta

[Salixx]

Today is my problem day, so I am consolidating both of these into one post. I'll start with my Den. loddigesii.

I received it from Andy's last spring and it seems perfectly fine. It was in bloom at the time and none of the leaves looked like this. In fact, they were fine until I took them outside. This yellow spotting and pitting started maybe a month after being outdoors. I didn't worry too much, it was on new growth and I thought it was sap-sucking insects even though I didn't see any. I figured it would go away after coming inside, but it has not. As the canes continued to mature, each leaf developed these weird spots. Nothing I look at seems to fit and other orchids that have grow alongside it, even during the summer, are unaffected. The plant, IMO seems to have grown fine despite this- four new canes this year + 3 keikis.


The second is my Masd. minuta that I got back at the end of June. When I bought it, I didn't really notice the deformities (I don't know how, to be honest), but it has always been like this. Again, I waited a while to see if it was a cultural issue, but every single new leaf is deformed. Otherwise, the plant seems perfectly healthy and routinely has five or more new growths at any given time. This one has not bloomed - it had a spike once but it blasted (was struggling with humidity issues at the time). It has always resided in my terrarium and no other plants in there are affected.


I welcome any thoughts and opinions on this. If they just have ugly plant syndrome, I am okay with that. However, if they are diseased, I want to get it taken care of.

Thanks all!

[Tindomul]

Subscribing with interest. My first thought with the Masdie was a humidity issue, but I am not sure and want to see what others have to say.

[Dollythehun]

I know nothing of Masdies but, I do not like the look of that Dendrobium at all. I do not know enough about virus to talk intelligently but, I find it troubling also.

[Salixx]

Boy, not the V word. I hope someone else can chime in.

I looked back at my old photos of this when I first got it, and there is evidence that it had it then. If you look at the yellowing leaf, you can see the pitting in that too.


I think I might try and shoot Andy's an email to see if they've seen this and know what it is.

[estación seca]

I ran to look at my D. loddigesii from Andy's and it does not have these pits.

[Salixx]

I e-mailed Andy and he's emailed me back requesting more info. I'll let you guys know if anything new is uncovered.

I might spring for some virus test strips just in case (I'd rather rule it out, if I can, or know I might have an issue on my hands).

[Selmo]

Looking at the photos of of both plants, at first I thought the den. was insect damage, but the masdie is not insects. After thinking about it for awhile. Thinking l have seen similar in other types of plants. Herbicide damage, came to mind, that would explain the masdie. problem of deformed curled leaves and the pitted tissue on the den.. At low rates glyphosate (Round-Up herbicide) will cause these types of twisted, curled deformed leaves and pitted tissue among other things, like redding of leaves, and shorter node intervals. Glyphosate causes disruption in cell divsion and growth causing death over several days. Glyphosate is a very common non-selective weed killer that is used in all kinds of applications from lawn care to agriculture. It is more damaging to monocots than dicots. Having your plants on a patio table or in a open window on a breezy day as this is sprayed, maybe all it took. As the drift of vapor or mist can travel quite far from the source. This maybe something that you where unaware was happening at the time or did not think about and 3-5 days later these things start to show up. Or if you got the plant from a vender that uses glyphosate to control weeds around their business. They may not even know this has happened. Your plants, if this is the problem, may never grow out of this, and slowly get weaker or more deformed. I know this is not what you want to hear, but it may be the answer to the mystery.

[Salixx]

I would suspect that, if tit is a herbicide, it would have had to been from the vendor. I am still waiting to hear back from Andy on the Den, I sent him a bunch of supplemental info and more photos.

The Masdie, at least, has lived in a terrarium the entire time I have had it, so I don't suspect glyphosate from my end. I personally have not used it anyway (I did a whole paper on it for an Ecotox class when I was an undergrad and am not fond of it, or Monsanto, for the matter).

The Den is possible, though it's location was more than 50 yards, through trees, to the next houses. Though I don't know for certain, I don't believe my landlord uses any kind of pesticide on his property since he has both bees and chickens that are free-range. It also grew alongside other orchids that are showing no symptoms.

If this is what is going on, I'm okay with it and, from the sound of it, time will certainly tell. I can replace both easy enough. Though I don't want to, I have no serious emotional attachment to either. I am more worried about my collection as a whole.

Thanks for your input, this feels like a game of Clue!

[Dollythehun]

I am not a fan of Monsanto either for far ranging reasons. However, Roundup does have its place and we use it here copiously AND responsibly. That said, I was trained as an Advanced Master Gardener by the state and owned a nursery business. Not to be disagreeable but, that doesn't look like any herbicide damage I have ever seen. In Indiana we have a State Ag. Agency that does free testing and if your State has that service, they might be able to tell from the pictures. It might be worth a try to call your county Agent. Back to Monsanto, unfortunately, if you are following GMO, you ain't seen nothing yet.

[Salixx]

For a little update:

I spoke with Andy and he's of the mind that this is some kind of pest damage, possibly mites or even aphids from when it was outside. He did also say that it was possibly exposed to too much heat while in transit to me. He did not believe it was a virus, however, and I concur. When it bloomed earlier this year (photo above), it did not have any of the tell-tale streaking of a virus.

I am going to let it go through its normal cycles this year, drop the old leaves and what have you and see what happens next year. I will probably keep it inside, so, if it happens again, I can rule out pests.

Thanks all for your input!

*P.S. I am still wondering about the Masdie- so if anyone has any other ideas on that, I am more than open for suggestions!