Fungus one week after repotting, why?

[LisaK]

I repotted my two mini orchid plants. I sterilized everything in bleach first. Then I removed the old medium, sphagnum moss that it came in and I washed them by hand. I even soaked them in tepid water and they seemed to love it. I cut off any brown dead spots, not many. I sprayed them with a neem oil spray. I bought sphagnum moss from amazon that was highly rated by many people. It looked great. I dampened it with bottled water and sprayed it with a cinnamon soap solution. I also sprinkled cinnamon on the roots and I fear I used too much. I watched an external root that I accidentally broke while repotting dry up alongside a perfectly healthy one that got cinnamon on it. It was then I learned cinnamon was very drying!! It killed a good root.
For a week I put them in the center of the kitchen because I read that it is best to keep them out of their normal amount of sun while they are recovering from being repotted. I think it was a mistake. A week after repotting the medium was almost dry and that is when I read about how drying cinnamon is. So I watered them with bottled water to rinse out the powder and sprayed them with the neem oil spray again. Within two days the roots became black in some spots with a blackish greenish whitish fur, which online is said to be fungus. (didn't take a photo)
Could fungus have grown in one week after repotting? Is it the new moss, it is perfectly dry out of the bag? The pot is only a half inch larger than the old one, as the roots were coming out of the pot and getting tight. Could it be the neem oil? It was the first time I used it on them in the 6 months I've had them.
My guess is that it was the fact they were on the kitchen table 10 feet from the window instead of on the north window sill where they were pretty happy.
Do I have to repot even though I just did it a week ago since the fungus grew on it. I sprayed it this morning with 1/3 hydrogen peroxide mixed with 2/3 water and flushed out the medium with it. No sign of the fungus except some parts of the roots are grayish black now.
I think I need to clarify why I used neem oil spray and the cinnamon spray. I have attached pictures (first pic 1.1) shows these round spots that appeared out of no where several weeks ago. I sent many emails out for help and had many different guesses on what it was, scale, mites, bacteria? But the common thread was the cinnamon spray and neem oil. So I tried both to cover my bases. Since then I have seen some sunken in spots on the tops of the leaves. And it looks like the leaf is dying on one right under my new baby flower spike!
I would love to know anyone's expert opinion!

[jason45244]

Personally I think you tried too many things at once. It's hard to tell what went wrong here, except I fear you used too much cinnamon. I'm not an expert, but black roots are really bad news. Just give it some time, there is no "quick fix" when it comes to sick orchids.

[LisaK]

Thank you Jason. I know fungus can hurt the plant so I treated it with the peroxide mix, but it had only been two days since I watered it. If the fungus shows up again before the moss is dry and I keep treating it, it will never dry out like it should, right? Seems like a bad cycle. If it grows again I should probably repot I guess?

[jason45244]

I would definitely remove the blackened roots. Also make sure you are getting good air flow to the roots if you have them in plastic pots put holes on the sides and bottom. Don't put them in decorative pots until they have become healthy again.

---------- Post added at 06:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 PM ----------

Also, I do not prefer sphagnum moss for phaleanopsis type orchids (some folks do). I like a mix that contains the compacted chunks of moss.

[Ray]

Hi Lisa.

As Jason said, you did so many (unnecessary) things, it's really hard to know what is causing what.

I have a suggestion:

1. Unpot the plant.
2. wash it very thoroughly in plain water. Bottled water may actually have a higher mineral content than your tap water (Where in PA are you?)
3. Repot the plant without doing anything else to the plant or medium.
4. Keep it warm and shady - not dark - and if your ambient humidity is low, slip a clear plastic bag over the plant and pot to keep that higher while the plant recovers.

Check your PM.

[LisaK]

Hi Ray,
Thank you for your expertise. These are my first orchids given to me as a gift while I'm recovering from spine surgery. I'm currently on a budget and don't want to purchase even more products to care for them, plus I'd like to avoid chemicals if possible.
I think I need to clarify why I used neem oil spray and the cinnamon spray. I have attached pictures (first pic 1.1) shows these round spots that appeared out of no where several weeks ago. I sent many emails out for help and had many different guesses on what it was, scale, mites, bacteria? But the common thread was the cinnamon spray and neem oil. So I tried both to cover my bases. Since then I have seen some sunken in spots on the tops of the leaves. And it looks like the leaf is dying on one right under my new baby flower spike!
Now as I mentioned in my initial post fungus, showed up this morning. I didn't take a picture of it but looked it up online.
It was never my intention to abuse them, just the opposite. They were great for months with new roots leaves and a new flower spike until a few weeks ago.
Someone visiting me told me he knocked the one orchid into the sink by accident, perhaps it caught bacteria then? The dots haven't shown any change, but then the sunken parts showed up, then the fungus.
Your step #4 put a bag over it...can you explain to me why that wouldn't make more fungus or mold?

[jason45244]

Ok from those pics I can honestly say I have seen phals in much worse condition pull through. I can't see the roots, but don't stress yourself out about this. Just be patient, let the treatment you gave it take hold. Give it a month or so and see if you get new growth or even something better. Patients is the key.

[estación seca]

Hi Lisa, Sorry you're having to deal with this while recovering from surgery. We all hope you make good progress and are feeling much better soon.

I don't think you need to purchase any more products. I think there is a good chance your seedlings will recover, but it is not a certainty, even with good care.

Seedlings, like baby humans, don't have the strength that adults do to recover from problems. They are very sensitive to chemicals. So, it's best to introduce new things with seedlings very gradually. And it is much better to avoid fungus in the first place than have to treat it.

I would guess most seedlings that die are watered too much, and the rest that die are not watered enough. Most people are over-waterers.

Orchid seedlings are always at risk from too much fussing and being treated with too many chemicals. Unless they come bare-root or in medium that is clearly old and broken-down, I would not unpot most seedlings until they have adapted to your growing area. Other people have different opinions on this.

Fungus attack is a result of plants being being too wet, often combined with being stressed. Damage in transit often provides a place for fungus to enter stressed plants.

Yours got too much water, and didn't dry out properly. Seedlings need high humidity more than they need wet roots. A seedling in a high-humidity environment can have very dry roots for a few days before getting into trouble, but a seedling with roots wet for a few days often gets into trouble. It is better to keep seedlings evenly just damp and not soak them, unless they dry out within a day.

People who use sphagnum successfully generally let it get almost completely dry before watering again, even with seedlings. You can tell when plants are dry by the weight of the plant in the pot. Notice how much it weighs when you water it, then keep lifting it each day. Eventually it will feel very light.

I have a few seedlings I bought that came in tiny pots with sphagnum. I could tell they had just been repotted into the sphagnum. I never completely soak them; I use a spray bottle to wet just the top. The water diffuses through the sphagnum and it all becomes barely moist. I water them again when they are almost dry.

The fungus and bacteria are everywhere. If the plants were healthy when they were knocked into the sink they would not have become infected. Or, did they get knocked into a sink full of soapy water, then not rinsed? This could cause problems with roots. If you ever have this happen, rinse them off with pure water right away. Soap disrupts cell walls in delicate tissues like seedling root tips.

I concur with Ray. I would unpot them, rinse them in pure water, set them someplace in the shade to get just dry, then pot them. Ray didn't specify, but I would use nearly-dry medium and not water them after repotting. If they were healthy I would spritz them a little, but I would not do this with seedlings attacked by fungus.

Then put them in a plastic bag or large glass jar. I use a large glass olive or pickle jar with a shot glass of water inside as a humidity chamber. If your plants have wet medium they are at risk for rot in a humidity chamber. Every few days take your plants out of the humidity chamber and spritz them with just a little pure water, then let them sit in a well-ventilated place until nearly dry, then put them back into the humidity chamber. With any luck your plants will resume growing.

Please keep us informed!

[Orchid Whisperer]

Lisa, if you don't stop spraying your plant with cinnamon spray, soap and everything else under the sun, you will kill it, if you have not already done so.

Simplifying Ray'advice:

Take the plant out of the pot.

Wash it thoroughly, plain water only.

Repot (clean pot, new medium; I recommend coarse chunky orchid bark, about $6/bag at you big-box garden center)
Leave it dry for a few days. After that, water once a week only until you see signs of new growth.

Do what Ray recommended with the bag only if your humidity is low.

[Ray]

Lisa, I'm assuming the root system is somewhat compromised. That means that the plant may have difficulty taking up water. It can still lose water, however, to the atmosphere. By inverting (not sealing) a bag over the plant and pot, you are simulating a greenhouse, trapping the moisture that evaporates from the potting medium around the plant, slowing that drying process.

To another point - if you have mold growing on the potting medium, it means the potting medium is decomposing, but it tells you nothing about the plant. If the mold is growing on the plant, it would likely be the roots, and that's an indication that they are dead and decomposing...

---------- Post added at 07:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:25 AM ----------

I just went back and looked at the photos again - I see no signs of mold, but those are pretty small photos.

The loss of a lower leaf is not much to be concerned about. You have put the plant through a lot of stress, just by repotting it, then added to that with your various treatments. It is resorbing the nutrient and energy stores in that leaf, and that's likely all that's happening.