Cattleya Leaf Discoloration.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

The anthocyanin pigmentation is of very little concern.

The bleaching is.

Yellow is the visual detection of the plant's underlying carotenoid pigments. Usually the chlorophyll pigments obscure the carotenoid pigments, but when chlorophyll is either absent or in visually undetectable amounts, carotenoid pigments show up.

Presence of anthocyanin pigments while the chlorophyll pigments show signs of being lighter, while there are also areas of carotenoid pigmentation altogether signal a bit too much light.

Sometimes you cannot look at signs individually, but rather you must look at signs of distress in its full context, which is why posting pictures of a distressed plant is far superior than a typed or verbal description. Pictures show context. Verbal or typed descriptions doesn't necessarily convey context, especially when the person asking the question doesn't understand what details need to be looked at in order to obtain the correct context for the situation.

[Gthumbz89]

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Originally Posted by HighSeas

If you're sure you haven't watered your plants with softened water, I'd first try giving it some Cal-Mag. I noticed in one picture that many of the leaf tips have been snipped off. Watering with cold water will also have this type of effect.

The "freckles"....are they a rust color? If so, treat for mites. I sure hope that helps....but if not please do come back and lets all have another look at it. Good luck!

It is possible that I watered with softened water because I was buying bottled water to use on the plants while I was fixing my RO unit. What does softened water do to the leaves?

The spots are a very dark purple, perhaps a bit on the black side.

I fertilize with micronutrients that have Cal-Mg in it as well as a micronutrient feed weekly weakly.

Does cold water cause dead leaf tips as well?? I did water with slightly chilled bottled water once... I hope that wasn't it.... That was foolish of me if so.



---------- Post added at 01:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 PM ----------

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

It's a bit too bright. I recommend putting the lights back up to where it was before.

I don't know if it's me or not, but the pot seems to have very little potting media in it.

Yes, I moved the lights allot farther up and the leaves look slightly better. However, they are still bleached at the tips. That one cat does have very little media, but I make up for it by watering more often.

---------- Post added at 01:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:31 PM ----------

Would softened water or cold water cause bud blast as well? Just curious, the plant in the picture had bud blast also.

Thanks everyone.

[isurus79]

It looks like high light or heat burn from the tips being too close to the bulbs.

Is it just me or has the lighting setup not been described in this thread yet? I know they're LEDs, but how many are there and how close to the leaf tips are they?

I'm also curious about the LEDs themselves. What brand are they, how big are they and how much power pumps through them? This would be the first time I've seen evidence of LED burn! Seems like they must be pretty powerful.

[blackvine]

A tad too much light. Dial the light back a bit by moving the orchid off to the side of the light source. Other than that, it looks fine to me. Except that black vein on one leaf . . . I've not experienced this before. Could be OK, could be a problem.

[Gthumbz89]

Originally Posted by isurus79

It looks like high light or heat burn from the tips being too close to the bulbs.

Is it just me or has the lighting setup not been described in this thread yet? I know they're LEDs, but how many are there and how close to the leaf tips are they?

I'm also curious about the LEDs themselves. What brand are they, how big are they and how much power pumps through them? This would be the first time I've seen evidence of LED burn! Seems like they must be pretty powerful.

It is a 300 watt 7 band LED light that is composed of 100 3 watt LEDs. It is the size of a regular hydroponic light. Before I moved it up it was probably a little over a half a foot away from the plants. Now it is a foot away. You would think that if it was LED burn that my phalaenopsis would have been affected too, but it is unscathed. Although it is, and was, farther away from the light than my cattleyas were.

I forgot the brand. I bought it cheap on ebay from a Chinese vendor. It seems to grow the plants just fine with the exception of this incident.

Powerful is a accurate description it bathes my room with a "lovely" pink hue. Not much to look at unfortunately; it hurts my eyes way more than my metal halide light did.

[isurus79]

Wow, that sounds pretty intense! Like you said, I bet your Phals are far enough away that they didn't get burned. Is there noticeable heat coming off the light when its been on for a while? My guess is that the high light combined with a heat bubble close to the bulbs is what caused the damage. In fact, if you place your Catts back inside the "heat bubble" but also have a small fan blowing directly at the light (to blow away the heat), I bet you would not get the same damage to the Catts. It might be an interesting experiment, if you're so inclined. BTW, this is all pure conjecture, but I grow in a similar situation.

I have a 6 bulb t5 system that is pretty hot over some fairly tall Cattleyas. I have the tall plants next to each other and I aim a small fan directly at the leaves that are perilously close to the light to blow away the heat and it works great. If I didn't have that fan, I guarantee I'd have some VERY crispy leaf tips! My lights and the fan are on a timer so they turn on simultaneously.

[Gthumbz89]

Originally Posted by isurus79

Wow, that sounds pretty intense! Like you said, I bet your Phals are far enough away that they didn't get burned. Is there noticeable heat coming off the light when its been on for a while? My guess is that the high light combined with a heat bubble close to the bulbs is what caused the damage. In fact, if you place your Catts back inside the "heat bubble" but also have a small fan blowing directly at the light (to blow away the heat), I bet you would not get the same damage to the Catts. It might be an interesting experiment, if you're so inclined. BTW, this is all pure conjecture, but I grow in a similar situation.

I have a 6 bulb t5 system that is pretty hot over some fairly tall Cattleyas. I have the tall plants next to each other and I aim a small fan directly at the leaves that are perilously close to the light to blow away the heat and it works great. If I didn't have that fan, I guarantee I'd have some VERY crispy leaf tips! My lights and the fan are on a timer so they turn on simultaneously.

I have a total of three fans blowing 24/7 in there and it is only getting to the low 80's in my tank. I think it is an issue of high par, high intensity light overloading the chlorophyll, not heat.

I had a similar incident with a lot smaller LED light from orchid web. My light meter gave a reading of a thousand FC, but all my new streptocarpus leaves turned crispy brown in an hour.

I noticed that I am getting really insane amounts of leaf penetrance with these LEDs despite the low FC readings. When I look through the leaves with the lights on the leaves are glowing it is so bright. It appears that standard FC measurements are no good with these lights.

Hopefully I can find a sweet spot for my cattleyas.

Cheers,

Collin.

[catwalker808]

I think that there is some important background info that's missing … what happened to your plants in the past. Your plants are in plastic pots with no media, most of your roots are dead (except for the very newest ones, which are very healthy), & you've been spraying religious with physan. There must be a reason for this.

It looks like you're pickling your plants (salting them or dehydrating them). The older parts of the plants don't have viable roots & there is no media.

Are the plants bare rooted because the roots were potted before, maybe too wet & rotted out. Is that why they are bare rooted now & being religiously sprayed with Physan?

Unlike standard cats, minicats do not love very high light, IF the temps are also constantly high. Under very close & very high lights, the temps would be very hot & that could be desiccating your plants. Looking closely at your photos, the yellow tips are & dead roots are not the only symptoms. Some of the green leaves are also wrinkled … demonstrating some kind of water stress.

More than one plant (minicats) is suffering, so it's likely that your growing conditions are the cause, rather than the affliction of a single plant.

You don't say how often you water, but your new roots look healthy. The old roots are dead & cannot supply your old growths. Minicat pbulbs don't have much storage capacity for water or nutrients & the high light & relatively high heat are probably depleting them. Physan is a bactericide, which is like a very mild clorox formulation. Under your hot dry conditions, "spraying religiously" could send your minicats to heaven.

I suggest putting your plants a bit further away from the plants, so that they don't get so hot. The old pbulb tips won't green up. Make sure the plants get enough water, without rotting the new roots. Use sterilized clippers to remove the dead roots. They are non-functional & only a source for possible fungus or bacteria infections.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by catwalker808

I think that there is some important background info that's missing … what happened to your plants in the past. Your plants are in plastic pots with no media, most of your roots are dead (except for the very newest ones, which are very healthy), & you've been spraying religious with physan. There must be a reason for this.

It looks like you're pickling your plants (salting them or dehydrating them). The older parts of the plants don't have viable roots & there is no media.

Are the plants bare rooted because the roots were potted before, maybe too wet & rotted out. Is that why they are bare rooted now & being religiously sprayed with Physan?

Unlike standard cats, minicats do not love very high light, IF the temps are also constantly high. Under very close & very high lights, the temps would be very hot & that could be desiccating your plants. Looking closely at your photos, the yellow tips are & dead roots are not the only symptoms. Some of the green leaves are also wrinkled … demonstrating some kind of water stress.

More than one plant (minicats) is suffering, so it's likely that your growing conditions are the cause, rather than the affliction of a single plant.

You don't say how often you water, but your new roots look healthy. The old roots are dead & cannot supply your old growths. Minicat pbulbs don't have much storage capacity for water or nutrients & the high light & relatively high heat are probably depleting them. Physan is a bactericide, which is like a very mild clorox formulation. Under your hot dry conditions, "spraying religiously" could send your minicats to heaven.

I suggest putting your plants a bit further away from the plants, so that they don't get so hot. The old pbulb tips won't green up. Make sure the plants get enough water, without rotting the new roots. Use sterilized clippers to remove the dead roots. They are non-functional & only a source for possible fungus or bacteria infections.

Great points Harry (as always)! I hadn't even thought of this.

[Gthumbz89]

Yes, the old roots are really in bad shape. I over fertilized with superthrive and other assorted additives when I first started growing orchids back in 2012. I have since learned from that mistake. I now fertilize very weakly and grow in clear pots to monitor the roots. They have all grown new roots and the new bulbs are for the most part plumping up and then shriveling with each new growth. I am still very new with cattleyas, so forgive my errors.

Those leaves have always been wrinkley, and the new leaves are quite smooth. Therefore, I am not concerned about those things so much as I am about the yellowing leaf tips.

I have had better luck with the roots now that I use less media and water more often. I feel as if my plants were recovering quite nicely until the leaf tips yellowed up.

Oh, I spray with physan to prevent fungus because I grow in a fish tank.