Insecticides

[james mickelso]

Whether "organic" or "chemical" they are toxic to something. Most "chemical" insecticides today, thanks to environmentalists and my generation, are almost benign to the point of ineffectiveness. Anyone remember DTD/the old Malathione? Toxicity to large animals, in the appropriate mixture/dilutions is miniscule to say the least unless that animal drinks the "chemical" insecticide straight. "Chemical" insecticides oxidize or become harmless to the surrounds after a very short time in the environment. Many "organic" (in actuality chemical) insecticides stay potent for much longer in the environment. And if they are toxic to the pest, they are toxic to the good insect and the bad. Neem oil is non selective. I applaud those who want to be as eco friendly as possible. Very commendable. I've spent my life being just that. I've worked in water and sewage treatment for over three decades, and in the 60's went toe to toe with Pacific Lumber to try and save the redwoods in northern California. I stood in front of bull dozers and was arrested numerous times for trying to defend these magnificent trees. I belonged to Coast Rider and The Sierra Club when there were few of us. I went to court in the early 70's trying to get San Onofre and Trestles beaches opened to the general public. I fought San Onofre Nuclear Power Plant and have been at it since the 70's. We finally won and it is now closed. But in a small environment, with plants that are important, and need immediate help, I have no problem using a chemical insecticide once, in order to keep from having to dose the plants over and over with an "organic" substitute. We're not talking about spraying a city for med fly or millions of acres of soybean/corn/rice/beans/tomatoes/grains/ect. And if you ask a question, or ask for opinions, then listen to the answers. If you already have a strategy in mind, then don't ask for other's opinions. And don't accuse my generation of spoiling the environment. My generation got off their duffs and did something about it. We created the mechanisms whereby the current generations can still wage the good fight. My generation produced the ecology movement. And all the environmental protections that the current generation enjoys. Before you attack "my" generation, read some history. My generation here in the USA wrote the ecological defense blueprint for the rest of the world to follow. And biological controls have proven to be less than adequate in ridding an environment of all the pests it was intended to take care of in the first place. I spent large sums of money trying to get lady bugs to eradicate aphids in my tomatoe fields and strawberry fields when I was a commercial farmer. Ok....I'll get off my soapbox now. Thank you.

[Ray]

Whoa, James! I don't know what got that started, but I'm glad I wasn't in the area at the time!

As someone who has worked in the chemical industry for 35+ years, I am right there with you objecting to some of the "holier than thou" attitudes of some well-meaning, but uneducated - dare I say "ignorant"? - folks. The right pesticides, used in a proper way, can be very effective and safe.

I do have to take exception to a couple of things you stated, but only because they are too "broad brush":

While there certainly are "synthetic" (everything is "chemical") insecticides that break down rapidly, there are still some that persist in the environment a very long time. And conversely, there are "natural" ones that persist, and some that don't.

Not all insecticidal controls are toxins, either. Sucrashield, for example, is totally non-toxic, but by physically disrupting the protective coatings on the insects, they die by desiccation. Honey bees, not having that protective coating, are unaffected.

Likewise, Oleotrol-M (fungicide) and Oleotrol-I (insecticide) are formulations that use nanoparticles of soybean oil (how environmentally friendly can you get?) to energetically lower the surface energy of the target organism's cell walls - essentially "blowing them up" - , so again they desiccate and die.

[orchidsarefun]

James - I admire what you have done and achieved in the past and you have certainly "walked the walk" regarding a commitment to the environment. However we can respectfully disagree on the value/or not of encouraging every individual attempting to do something similar, in their own way, with regards to being more eco-friendly. Its a slippery road - its easier to zap household pests with a chemical insecticide aerosol, kill weeds in the lawn with chemicals.....and so on. Where do you draw the line ? The mindset has to change from what is best for myself to what is best for the environment - taking into account whether organic is best...or not. A good example - systemic insecticides in common use in the USA are off the market in Europe due to individuals that really care. It may be for 2 years only, initially, but the same manufacturer - Bayer - has introduced a more eco-friendly product in Europe as a result. The power of the individual and the consumer should never be underestimated, or discouraged.

[quiltergal]

I don't want to get into the natural vs synthetic insecticide argument yet again. James does have a point, and I agree with him. If you come to this forum and post a question asking for opinions when you have already decided what your course of action will be the least you could do is be respectful of the suggestions offered. I'm not really sure why one would bother to ask in the first place. Seems like a big waste of bandwidth to me, and a waste of other member's time.

[HighSeas]

Do I hear an "AMEN"?!

Group hug!

[Philantha]

I don't care if you use synthetic or organic, but please, don't resort to this guy's pest control methods:
Man Burns Down House Trying To Kill Spider With Homemade Flamethrower

[HighSeas]

[DavidCampen]

Originally Posted by Philantha

I don't care if you use synthetic or organic, but please, don't resort to this guy's pest control methods:
Man Burns Down House Trying To Kill Spider With Homemade Flamethrower

Long ago I would use a homemade flamethrower to kill cockroaches. I used an industrial type pump spray bottle filled with anhydrous isopropyl alcohol and a butane lighter as the igniter. My roommate and I would take turns, one would man the flamethrower while the other picked up objects looking for the cockroaches underneath.

[james mickelso]

Heheheheh!!! I can just picture that.

---------- Post added at 11:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 AM ----------

And James has put away the soapbox. Sorry.

[RJSquirrel]

as time goes on we discover more about what we have done in the past and the less we know what we are going to do about it.