Bees Bayer Systemic Pesticide

[vanda2020]

Heard on the news today the EU has outlawed this as their research proved it was a major cause of their bee declines. Also heard every nursery plant we buy usually is treated with this and it stays in plants for years even in their nectar..

I for one like to use Neem oil and soap. Hope we can get a handle on this or the future generations will not be able to eat a blueberry, raspberry, or any other plant that needs a bee.

[A. thom Aberdares]

Hi,

I am only a new member here, but just like to make some remarks.
I guess you mean the Bayer Bee killer imidacloprid. In the bee keeping forums it is not that conclusive that this active ingredient is the main culprit of the Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) in certain parts of the world. Nevertheless it will be harmful in one way or the other to (?), because its efficacy is impressive. But then again it has replaced many other insecticides which were more acute harmful....
And on Neem and soap, there are also some issues, but mostly depending on how it is used. How I got here. Just want to know if my bees are competing with insects who are better in fertilizing my orchids. I have some bee hives in between the orchids.

[Ray]

That's one of the reasons I'm such a fan of SucraShield. It kills all stages of both insects and mites, does so by physical action, rather than by classic toxicity, and the active ingredient is even listed for use to kill varroa mites in beehives.

[Pilot]

Originally Posted by Ray

That's one of the reasons I'm such a fan of SucraShield. It kills all stages of both insects and mites, does so by physical action, rather than by classic toxicity, and the active ingredient is even listed for use to kill varroa mites in beehives.

Will it kill the common red mite?


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[ChaseGhost]

Originally Posted by vanda2020

Heard on the news today the EU has outlawed this as their research proved it was a major cause of their bee declines. Also heard every nursery plant we buy usually is treated with this and it stays in plants for years even in their nectar..

I for one like to use Neem oil and soap. Hope we can get a handle on this or the future generations will not be able to eat a blueberry, raspberry, or any other plant that needs a bee.

Especially plants from big box store's like HD or Lowes.
It is a contributing factor to Bee Decline but so is mowing down or clearing your property for turf grass as it takes away a major Pollen/Nectar source for bees. A systemic pesticide would always be my last choice(which pretty much means I would never use it.) It may not be the proven cause of CCD, but poor hive nutrition due to neonicotinoid contaminated pollen must be a major factor in honey bee ( Apis Mellifera an invasive here in the US and many other places) and Native bee(Xylocopa, Megachile, Halictid's ect..) decline. If you want to help native bees there are lots of cheap and easy nesting boxes you can build, and just plant more native plant's instead of turf and exotic ornamentals! For Texas most Salvia, Verbenas and anything thing in Asteracea and Compositae will beneficial to the bees in your area. If your interested I can send you a lot of links on the subject!!

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Pilot

Will it kill the common red mite?

SucraShield works by breaking down the protective coatings on the eggs, larvae, pupae, and adults, so that they can then desiccate and die. It is effective on a very wide range of mites and insects, so it is unlikely that it has been evaluated on every species, but as that is such a common pest, I would imagine that it would be well known if it was not effective.

Another positive in my mind is that it is quite safe to use. It is considered to be an eye irritant (so is ivory soap), but I have no hesitation to hold the plant in my bare hand while I spray, so I can tilt it to get to every surface. It's an OMRI-listed product, and has a zero pre-harvest interval when used on food crops - treat, harvest, wash and eat all in the same day.


Ray Barkalow
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[james mickelso]

Uhhhhhhhh......how much of this "bee killer" are we talking about here!!!? This seems silly to me. Colony collapse disorder has not been conclusively attributed to any specific cause yet. I've read lots of exerpts on the science sites (scientific American, Nature, Sciencedaily.org, ,ect) over the past few years but they are suppositions and not proven. Be that as it may, unless you are spraying a couple hundred plants or more, and bees are freely roaming around your house or yard, this concern is silly. The traffic driving around on your streets kills far more bees than anything you put on your plants. Hang me in effigy if you like but please.... stop and think.

---------- Post added at 12:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 AM ----------

And Ray.....if Sucra Shield kills by contact, and is used where bees are foraging, won't they also be victims??? The stuff works well but it isn't selective for any few type insects alone. It works on all exoskellotel systems.

[lepetitmartien]

Some precisions on the news…

First, we have a temporary ban on some uses for neonicotinoids for 2 years in the EU, starting now. This in order to see if there's an effect on the bee issues. Bee farmers are saying with valid arguments that it won't prove anything due to the existing stocks, and persistence in the plants and the ban should be at least 3 or 4 years with even more restrictions for agriculture.

Second we have a general pesticide ban starting 2020 for public administrations and constituencies, extended to home use in 2022. But not in agriculture.

On the bee issues itself, there's nothing conclusive but there's hints, and lies, as the products have been advertised as save for bees and they are not, as one used for sunflowers seeds is found in the flowers when bees visit them and die. Plus a french study found out that even a very low levels one product had heavy neuronal effects resulting into loss of orientation and the starvation/decline of the colony hereafter. Last, a US study showed that fungicides that are supposed to be safe for bees in fact are not.

Anyway, there's certainly not one cause but a multifactorial one, which explains why it's so difficult to pinpoint. Loss of workers, toxicity, disruption of immunity, parasites, multiple diseases… Anyway we have to find out, and these bans are a way to try even if the first is not done the right way. I'm personally happy of the second I regret only it's long to come by, and that we'll have to learn to be better cultivators to avoid diseases (well, improving is good uh?), and look closely into organic solutions.

[james mickelso]

I am the doubting Thomas. it's like dr obsessing with weight. thin...thin...thin. but the world is full of overweight people who live long healthy productuivbe lives. by the billions. or "eat veg while we ingest so many more dangerous toxins. orchidists using or not using certain pesticides has so little effect on wildlife it's such a joke to ban our use of x,y,z while ag/industry pollutes our homes. it's silly. cultural changes can't keep up with the perils of home orchid growing. not feasible. gov is chicken poop to go after the real culprits but grandstand in the media by pushing this type of stupid agenda.

[dounoharm]

the effects on bee keeping and hives from my use of a systemic insecticide in MY HOME or GREENHOUSE is not an issue....I have no honeybees in my home, and darn few in the greenhouse, mostly bumble bees get in, and we can do without those near the log cabin as they burrow in the logs...bad bad bad....I do think that broad use of those systemics in agriculture is not common or should NOT be common on our foodstuffs....I think there are laws against use of systemics on FOOD! most commercial beekeepers move their hives to certain areas to achieve the quality of honey they produce....to the blueberry fields or the forests....I think, as a race worldwide, we need to assess the need and use of ALL chemicals in our environment more fully...it is like pollution tho, we can regulate all we want in our country, but when china spews it out, the air quality of the world as a whole is doomed....and we cant change that....besides, with the radiation japan has put in the oceans, it will kill the oceans in a few generations...and after that we will all have 3 eyeballs before we die out a few generations after that....so live while you can!