Bees Bayer Systemic Pesticide

[orchidsarefun]

you seem to have missed this comment from the EPA - in the link provided previously

"Based on currently available data, the EPA's scientific conclusions are similar to those expressed in the EFSA report with regard to the potential for acute effects and uncertainty about chronic risk. However, the EFSA report does not address risk management, which, under U.S. federal law, is a key component of the EPA's pesticide regulatory scheme."

( my bold )
the EPA doesn't seem to have done anything concrete - other than endorsing the EFSA conclusions - because of US federal law restrictions regarding "risk management" ? So this restriction is your reason to continue using the product ?

[james mickelso]

If this ban goes into effect....I'll bet that it is never lifted no matter the research. Bans are for life. Always have been and always will be. But I'll bet the company will reformulate their product too.

[Orchid Whisperer]

Nope, did not miss the EPA comment, in your bold, at all. If you think EPA is not doing anything concrete here, you did not read the entire EPA news release.

I am not trying to convince you of anything, and you certainly are not going to convince me of anything.

Done here - have fun.

[DavidCampen]

Originally Posted by james mickelso

If this ban goes into effect....I'll bet that it is never lifted no matter the research. Bans are for life.

That is one reason why I have enough imidacloprid to last me for decades.

[quiltergal]

David, what's the shelf life? I may have to stock up. JK, I've had the same bottle of Bayer 3 in 1 for at least 5 years. I've only used it once on scale with one recommended repeat application. The scale is completely gone. I've tried the Q-Tip alcohol technique. That works for about a week until the eggs hatch and you have to start all over. I don't like using Neem in the house because 1. it's messy, and 2. it stinks. If I can treat my plants with 2 applications of Bayer (of course following all instructions as well as using common sense) and eradicated the pests. Why would I want to treat, retreat, retreat, retreat, and still have a problem? Since I know my usage is not going to affect bees I'd rather treat and be done.

[orchidsarefun]

yes, I am sure Bayer is pleased that "informed consumers" ( LOL ) in the USA are rushing out to stockpile products - in your underground bunkers ?, especially when products containing imidacloprid are already reformulated with a "new" chemical in the UK ( at least ). I don't know if this is a shell game by Bayer but if it is a different subclass to the others and is not dangerous to bees, then a win for everyone !

ON ITS OWN WEBSITE :

"The withdrawal of three neonicotinoids - imidacloprid, thiamethoxam and clothiandin – begins at the end of September 2013 when all affected products will be removed from retailers’ shelves. Consumers must use or dispose of any products they have by the end of November 2013
The only Bayer Garden product affected is Provado Lawn Grub Killer, which contains imidacloprid. Other Bayer Garden products contain thiaclopid, an entirely new generation of insecticide, such as both the UK’s number one bug control product and Provado Vine Weeviller Killer². This active ingredient is a completely different sub class to the three neonicotinoids in question and is considered to have a good profile for bees. "

Bee Informed - Neonicotinoids - Bayer Garden

[Orchid Whisperer]

Originally Posted by DavidCampen

That is one reason why I have enough imidacloprid to last me for decades.

Thanks for the idea Dave. My collection is modest, but I may still buy an extra spray bottle or 2 next time I think about it and am at a store that sells it.

[dounoharm]

having studied chemicals and chemical use and misuse in horticulture school, I have realized that it is much better to use a systemic chemical as directed for controlling rapidly spreading and insistent bugs such as mealies and scale....use it as directed for about a month and you are done...or, use neem, insecticidal soaps, etc over and over every week for a year or more...plus the damage done to your plants after repeated infestation is not pretty....kill the bugs and move on....in controlled cultures like indoors and greenhouses it is definitely the weapon of choice....ANY chemical, organic or whatever, is dangerous when applied inappropriately....

[Brooke]

One of the fastest ways to spread a virus in your collection is not eliminating sap sucking insects. They move from plant to plant and if the previous plant has a virus, the next plant the insect visits will acquire it.

If you are inclined to use the Bayer product buy it in the concentrate form and mix it as you need it. Buying the diluted ready to spray is a very expensive way to use it.

Do you know that one of the main systemic flea control products contains imidacloprid?

Brooke

[orchidsarefun]

We have some classic examples of confirmation bias in this thread. The fact remains that Bayer itself has reformulated its garden products to exclude imidacloprid in at least the UK. Bayer states that the new "active ingredient is a completely different sub class to the three neonicotinoids in question and is considered to have a good profile for bees. "
If that isn't an admission by the manufacturer, then I don't know what is !!

I recommend that people research the significance of the Druckrey-Kupfmuller equation and the widespread use of neonicotinoids ( ironically including the replacement chemical in the UK )

The significance of the Druckrey-Küpfmüller equation for risk assessment--the toxicity of neonicotinoid insecticides to arthropods is reinforced by exposure time.