What are these marks on a Phal leaf?

[RosieC]

Anyone know what these marks might be?
Could it be mite damage, I've had spider mites on some Dens, but I've not seen mites on this, just these marks.
What else might it be?



A bit of background, this was only the second orchid I ever bought, back in 2008. Until a couple of years ago it was also a massive very healthy orchid, with over 32 flowers when it last flowered well in 2010.

However for the last couple of years it's health has been steadily declining. It's lost several of leaves which were NOT the bottom ones, mostly from one side. It's grown new leaves so still counts 13 leaves, however the new ones are pretty small compared to the old ones and most of the leaves are very wrinkled and limp.

I grow a lot of phals successfully (this is one of 23) and the others are doing well. I know how to look after the roots etc, but this one won't grow new roots (even with seaweed extract) and over the 3 years since it last grew roots most of them have just aged and died so there are very few left.

Anyway, I'm not looking for general care tips, unless you think there is something I might be missing, I'm just wondering if these marks could explain it's reluctance to be healthy

[Leafmite]

Poor phal. Wish I knew what it was. Spidermites can kill a plant and are very difficult to eliminate. I get them on my plumeria in the winter.

[Bud]

it looks like an edema by noticing the blisters, and there is a start of fungi infestation by the yellowish pus like stuff inside the blisters.

[Island Girl]

Gosh, I don't know... I don't think I've seen anything like it! I would almost assume virus, given your description of its progressively smaller growth, no root growth, general decline, etc... (b/c I've seen ur orchids, & you take excellent care of them) But, maybe treat it for mites first, and see if that would help it... Sometimes (as I know you know) Phals can have progressively smaller growth, when they are stressed for any reason.. So, that's why I'd suggest treating for mites. You got a pic of the whole plant? Or close-up pics of the leaves even?

I have a couple Phals that were greatly affected by mites last year, and it's taken them pretty much this long to really produce new roots... & some also with smaller leaves... My luedde especially... Altho, it is also spitting out kiekes left and right. So, I'd say, esp if the roots are in good condition, it's had some type of shock... Mites? or even a (dreaded) virus?

....could it have gotten cold damage on that one side?

[Wild Orchid]

Hi Rosie,
Sorry, not of much help here but your mentioning of Phals declining over the years caught my attention.

I've got one on these Phals too. It came as a gift in full bloom and glory, rebloomed and then stopped growing altogether. It now only has 2 remaining leaves and hasn't grown any new ones over a year. It does have a few good roots, the rest are kinda... old but not rotten.

Like you said, I know how to take care of Phals, good culture, etc. This one gets the same care, TLC and attention as all others that are thriving or at least growing steadily. The problem is, this one doesn't respond.

I kind of wonder if at some point Phals reach their limit after being grown in a greenhouse and so that's the way things are.

[RandomGemini]

I was reading somewhere on the board earlier where someone said that some phals are designed only bloom once and be done. Maybe this is one of those?

[naoki]

How much fertilizer are you using, Rosie? Do you consider drastically reducing the amount?

How did these leaf marks develop? Also do all leaves have these marks? It doesn't look like the spots from Phalaenopsis Chlorotic Spot Virus, but take a look at this:
My World of Orchids: Tawain Orchid Virus or Microfungus??
People used to say this is "microfungus", but I recently saw a paper where someone isolated the potyvirus from this type of symptom which people used to call as "microfungus". Identification and characterization of a potyvirus causing chlorotic spots on Phalaenopsis orchids - Springer
I don't think this is the cause of your problem, but I thought that you might want to check if the symptom matches.

[RosieC]

Thanks everyone.

Mary, I had wondered if light, or cold had caused the loss of several leaves on one side. Don't really know.

Wild Orchid, I've wondered that about orchids just reaching a limit. This one did so well for years, Random Gemini, it flowered many times before it started to decline, but yeah... maybe it's just reached a limit

I don't think there is an edema, I've had those on other plants and it's not been like that. A fungi infection could make sense though.

It's only on 2 of 13 leaves but all are dehydrated severarly.

Duane McDowell commented on this where I posted it elsewhere and suggested that it might be best to toss it... because of the risk of it being a virus that could spread to others.

I like the idea of keeping it and trying to treat for mites... but a part of me agrees with Duane... but I'm really bad at every giving up on a plant. Hmm....

[Nexogen]

Originally Posted by Wild Orchid

Hi Rosie,
Sorry, not of much help here but your mentioning of Phals declining over the years caught my attention.

I've got one on these Phals too. It came as a gift in full bloom and glory, rebloomed and then stopped growing altogether. It now only has 2 remaining leaves and hasn't grown any new ones over a year. It does have a few good roots, the rest are kinda... old but not rotten.

Like you said, I know how to take care of Phals, good culture, etc. This one gets the same care, TLC and attention as all others that are thriving or at least growing steadily. The problem is, this one doesn't respond.

I kind of wonder if at some point Phals reach their limit after being grown in a greenhouse and so that's the way things are.

I agree with you

[Island Girl]

Originally Posted by RosieC

Thanks everyone.

Mary, I had wondered if light, or cold had caused the loss of several leaves on one side. Don't really know.

Wild Orchid, I've wondered that about orchids just reaching a limit. This one did so well for years, Random Gemini, it flowered many times before it started to decline, but yeah... maybe it's just reached a limit

I don't think there is an edema, I've had those on other plants and it's not been like that. A fungi infection could make sense though.

It's only on 2 of 13 leaves but all are dehydrated severarly.

Duane McDowell commented on this where I posted it elsewhere and suggested that it might be best to toss it... because of the risk of it being a virus that could spread to others.

I like the idea of keeping it and trying to treat for mites... but a part of me agrees with Duane... but I'm really bad at every giving up on a plant. Hmm....

I'm bad at giving up on plants too... If you could keep it far away from all your others, maybe you could give it a go... Otherwise, I'd also probably throw it out, sad to say