Neem Oil vs Safer Insect Soap & Alcohol

[ladyslipper]

What is the opinion on Neem Oil versus Safer Soap with a bit of rubbing alcohol as a means of keeping collections free of things like scale, aphids or/and mites? Would witchazel be a safer alternative to alcohol with respect of the cooling effect it has on the cells of the leaf?

I am looking forward to reading alot of good opinions!

[Ross]

Originally Posted by ladyslipper

What is the opinion on Neem Oil versus Safer Soap with a bit of rubbing alcohol as a means of keeping collections free of things like scale, aphids or/and mites? Would witchazel be a safer alternative to alcohol with respect of the cooling effect it has on the cells of the leaf?

I am looking forward to reading alot of good opinions!

The thing I don't like about Safers Soap is the white residue which is nearly impossible to remove. Other solutions are probably more esthetic, IMO.

[LILROCORCHIDS]

I vote for neem , I use to have scale , I know people (Wife) don't like the smell of neem but I find it works well for me . This was a aphid year in greenhouse I just use a mild liquid soap for them ,does the job.
Rocco

[ladyslipper]

So to clarify, for scale you should use Neem? For aphids & mites use dishwashing soap? I use Sunlight Antibiotic; would that be okay? Would I be correct in guessing you mix it with water and spray?

regards, mary

[LILROCORCHIDS]

Mary
For scale I use the Neem mixed with Ivory soap according to directions . For just Aphid I use soap mixed with water, tablespoon to a gallon . Mites I would use Sun Oil w/soap or Neem . Because I have a large collection of orchids it can get expensive using Neem but it does work, also only mix what you need at time of spraying once the Neem is mixed they say it is only good for 24 hours. Do not spray plants with the oils when the sun will be on them will burn. This is what works for me I know some people use 409 and other household chems, but I haven't tried them yet . If you look in other threads you might get some other choices . Maybe they will post what they have used here that works. I have used antibacterial soap if out, just wonder if it kills good bacteria ? hope this helps.
Rocco

[Ray]

Think about the actions the various chemicals take.

• An oil - whether it's neem, Sunspray, or vegetable cooking oil - coats and suffocates. Neem is also an antifeedant, so is best, in my opinion, used as a preventive measure, not a curative.
• Soaps break down the waxy, protective coatings on the insects, making them more vulnerable to their environment.
• Alcohol is a toxin and desiccant.

You're going to mix a soap with any oil, as it will emulsify it in the water to get better dispersion. The soap will break down the waxy coating and the oil will suffocate the critters, but it can also play hell on plants if overdone, so oils are usually recommended for hard-shell bugs like brown scale.

Soap and water, by itself, is pretty good for soft-bodied insects, but can take some time to work. Alcohol, on the other hand, is a contact killer. A mixture is a good idea. Neither is particularly good for hard scale, as the shells are pretty good protection, but soap will help loosen their grip if you're removing the bugs manually.

[Oscarman]

I no longer use Safers Soap, although I use another safer's product more lately - End-All and also Neem. Like the results from each.

The following mixture was recommended by another OB member and comes from the COC's newsletter Sept. 2004. It seems to work quite well, as you cam mix it and uses it whenever you spot something that 'bugs' you.

Add to 1 litre of water:
30 ml concentrated 35% H2O
20 ml alcohol;
2 ml detergent (to act as a binder)

[ladyslipper]

Originally Posted by Oscarman

I no longer use Safers Soap, although I use another safer's product more lately - End-All and also Neem. Like the results from each.

The following mixture was recommended by another OB member and comes from the COC's newsletter Sept. 2004. It seems to work quite well, as you cam mix it and uses it whenever you spot something that 'bugs' you.

Add to 1 litre of water:
30 ml concentrated 35% H2O
20 ml alcohol;
2 ml detergent (to act as a binder)

Hi Dave, would you clarify this part "concentrated 35%
H2O"? would that be concentrated water? I am sorry, I don't understand. From what I have been hearing, Neem seems to have a smell and being in that my grow area is in the living room, I will try no smelling remedies first. Would this solution work to get rid of scale? Would I be able to substitute witchazel for the alcohol? Witchazle may be less hard on the plant than alcohol since I haven't read it has cooling properties.

Regards, mary

[goodgollymissmolly]

Originally Posted by Oscarman

I
The following mixture was recommended by another OB member and comes from the COC's newsletter Sept. 2004. It seems to work quite well, as you cam mix it and uses it whenever you spot something that 'bugs' you.

Add to 1 litre of water:
30 ml concentrated 35% H2O
20 ml alcohol;
2 ml detergent (to act as a binder)

Dave, I'm sure you meant H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide). I caution you about mixing any oxidizing agent with other chemicals unless you are absolutely certain about the results. The two common oxidizing agents available to most people are hydrogen peroxide and clorox (sodium hypochlorite). These are very reactive products and can cause release of dangerous reaction products or fires. I'm sure you recall the deaths resulting from mixing toilet bowl cleaner with clorox. Chlorine gas resulted in several deaths to housewifes.

The regular poster here cannot possibly predict the results of mixing HP or clorox with other chemicals. This is even more true when you talk about 35% HP which is really a strong oxidizing material. Just because these are commonly available materials does not mean they are safe. Virtually every pesticide label cautions against mixing with oxidizing agents.

Be careful. I'm not an overly cautious person. Some people think I'm chemical Ali, but mixing oxidizing agents is not in my bag of acceptable tricks. This is DANGEROUS!

[Oscarman]

Good point Jim, I certainly did mean H2O2. Indeed it is a powerful oxidizing chemical. In the battle against bugs we all need to exercise caution when handling any chemical.

Cautionary steps when working with any chemical could include:
- use in well ventilated space
- use chemicals that are the least toxic and appropriate for your growing space
- wearing appropriate personal protective equipment
during mixing, application and disposal
- showering and changing attire after application
- seal off the treated areas until safe to re-enter
- proper labeling of chemical containers and solutions
- controlled storage of chemicals and solutions
- proper disposal of containers and excess solutions

In my area 35% hydrogen peroxide is available at most hydroponic stores.

I would hate to give the wrong idea to anyone, so please do not mix hydrogen peroxide or clorox with other pesticides and spray them on your plants.