Phalaenopsis leaves yellowing

[harpspiel]

I have a recently purchased Phal. 'Sogo Gold Tris' (a miniature equestris hybrid) which I placed in a terrarium. Over the past few weeks, at least 5 of its leaves have yellowed and fallen off.

The terrarium has compact fluorescent lighting (the plant is about 20" away from the bulbs), humidity between 50 and 80% and good air circulation provided by fans. The temperature is 68 at night and 80 daytime.

When I was moving the plant it was in bloom, and both buds and blooms subsequently wilted and fell off (except for one bloom, which it retained). I figured this could be from the stress of the move. But then it began to lose leaves from the bottom up.

The plant had at least 8 leaves at the beginning. Each leaf yellowed, starting at the base and working its way toward the tip, and then fell off. It even lost a new growth that was branching off to the side. The plant currently has only three leaves left.

I had it planted in bark chips, but they seemed to be retaining too much moisture so now the roots are exposed in the tank. They are healthy and green when wet, white when dry. I have been waiting for the roots to become white and then watering it again (that means every day or every other day).

I never have success with phals, and I simply cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong. In the terrarium with it are a Pleurothallis grobyi, a Masdevallia 'Copper Angel' and a Bulbophyllum harkerii, all apparently happy. I'll post pictures as soon as I have them.

[RosieC]

While loss of lower leaves can be normal, loss of so many lower leaves does seem to indicate a problem to me.

You have obviously checked the roots as you say it is now bare-root. When you took it out the bark did you have to remove any dead/rotten roots?

When I had one that behaved in that way (loosing arround 6 out of 8 leaves) it was a problem with rotten roots. Once the plant had shrunk to a size it's surviving roots could support it stopped losing leaves.

Hopefully someone else may have more ideas.

[SewPretty]

I'm not trying to be mean or anything but i think your problem with Phals is that you are trying too hard. kind of over mothering

how is the air circulation?
are there and black spots at the base indicating crown rot?

Phals like to dry out a bit between waterings. I have all of mine planted in bark and I water them MAYBE once a week sometimes less (even in the winter) and i pretty much ignore them the rest of the time. they are in regular pots with a humidity tray and they do great.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

No pictures. Can't give any kind of good advice. You gave good growing info.

But...

I have suspicions it's not necessarily the growing environment/conditions that's causing you grief. Your Phal is pretty much grown almost like how it'd be in the wild.

I believe your problem lies in your choice in the method of culture given the environment the plant is placed in.

This is a tentative suggestion until you can provide photos of not only your plant, but your growing tank.

Try growing it mounted without moss.

If your tank looks anything like the pic in the following link:

Photographing phals in situ on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Well...you get it...

Or...

It was way over potted.

Again, won't know until you provide pics.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Here's a pic of a Phal's roots in the wild:

Phal roots on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I suggest checking out all photos he's taken of Phalaenopsis in the wild. He's got a lot.

[camille1585]

I don't see how looking at phal roots in the wild is supposed to help. Yes, they are attached to a tree, and they are green. But the way we grow them is far from the way the grow in the wild, and many many people grow they very successfully in pots. I have nothing against mounts (have some mounted species phals) but pot culture is not a problem in itself. Sorry, I don't see what you're getting at with those pictures.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by camille1585

I don't see how looking at phal roots in the wild is supposed to help. Yes, they are attached to a tree, and they are green. But the way we grow them is far from the way the grow in the wild, and many many people grow they very successfully in pots. I have nothing against mounts (have some mounted species phals) but pot culture is not a problem in itself. Sorry, I don't see what you're getting at with those pictures.

It's just to show what they'd look like in a consistently wet and humid environment - like how he probably has them in with that tank of his, if they were mounted.

He's not succeeding with pot culture in the situation he's got going. I don't see the point in repeating something that has failed for him multiple times.

Try something different. That something different is mounting the Phal.

I mean it sounds like the environment he keeps putting them in is very much like the environment they'd be in in the wild. So I don't see why he needs to pot them up and fail at growing Phalaenopsis again, get frustrated and pissed that he can't grow a single Phal.

In this scenario, if I have to throw in the saying that the very definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting a different result...

Then would what I have suggested make any kind of sense?

If the situation called for it, I would also recommend s/h, where the Phal would be in a pot.

But in this case, I don't think that would work in his favor.

The pics are all reference points. I found it useful. Some people may just think it's a pretty picture.

I look at things differently.

Of course the other option is to grow the Phals without the tank. Not sure what he wants to do.

There's also the thing where he hasn't posted a pic yet...

[harpspiel]

Sorry all, my camera has been on the fritz, but here you go, as promised -

As you can see, it is now mounted with some sphagnum moss behind the roots. This actually occurred to me before I even read the King of orchid growing's posts. It seems to have stabilized at three leaves. Thanks so much RosieC for your theory - it hadn't occurred to me that it might just be shrinking to a size the roots could accommodate. I think that may have been the problem.

Since the orchid seems to be out of immediate danger now, my main concern is that I not over/under water it. In the tank, the roots become white within a few hours of when I water it. Should I water it every other day or twice a week, and how often should I mist it? What are your recommendations?

Thanks for you thoughts. By the way, King of orchid growing, it's a she, not a he, and her name is Ariel.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by harpspiel

...it's a she, not a he, and her name is Ariel.

Noted.

Originally Posted by harpspiel

Since the orchid seems to be out of immediate danger now, my main concern is that I not over/under water it. In the tank, the roots become white within a few hours of when I water it. Should I water it every other day or twice a week, and how often should I mist it? What are your recommendations?

I see that on the same branch you have the Phal on, the thicker part of the branch closer to the bottom of the tank is darker than the place where you have the Phal currently. It's more consistently moist in that area.

I recommend removing the Phal and positioning the roots in that area. Wrap the roots around the circumference of the branch.

Phals don't grow upright, they grow horizontally.

If you haven't seen this pic yet, here's a pic of a few Phals in the wild:

Healthy colony on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

You can water everyday or every other day.

Watch the plant carefully in the coming month and make adjustments where necessary.

[Connie Star]

Nice setup!