Dying Cattleya
Login
User Name
Password   


Registration is FREE. Click to become a member of OrchidBoard community
(You're NOT logged in)

menu menu

Sponsor
Donate Now
and become
Forum Supporter.

Dying Cattleya
Many perks!
<...more...>


Sponsor
 

Google


Fauna Top Sites
Register Dying Cattleya Members Dying Cattleya Dying Cattleya Today's PostsDying Cattleya Dying Cattleya Dying Cattleya
LOG IN/REGISTER TO CLOSE THIS ADVERTISEMENT
Go Back   Orchid Board - Most Complete Orchid Forum on the web ! > >
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 06-19-2024, 09:31 PM
greyblackfish greyblackfish is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jul 2021
Zone: 9a
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 139
Dying Cattleya Female
Default

I’ve read on here that changing anything for an orchid should really be done gradually and effects can only be observed on a yearly basis. It would make sense since cattleyas generally produce one new growth a year.

That being said, you mentioned you’re using two kinds of fertilizers. There’s a thread somewhere that I’m in where some fertilizer experts gave me a very complicated lesson on fertilizer. Here’s a link you should find helpful Plant Nutrition

I’m only beginning to use fertilizers myself. There were some mistakes I’ve made before that ruined some roots and may have killed a few more. Blooming orchids don’t need fertilizer and same with orchids that are not putting out new growths. I would rather not use fertilizer at all instead of use too much.

But fertilizer aside, you might want to remove your orchid from bright light and put it in lower light as well. It is now an orchid in recovery and lower light is recommended. Much like a person who is recovering from an illness may want to eat bland easily digestible foods. Less water, less light, and no fertilizer. It’s possible your orchid may make a recovery. When my cattleyas aren’t doing well, I pray for a new growth so it can make new roots and have a better chance at survival.

Orchids aside, if you’re thinking of planting bamboo straight into your yard, I would recommend against it. I know a few neighbors who are having trouble keeping their bamboo under control in their yard. Those charming things can become monsters.
__________________
~Tina
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes
Likes Roberta liked this post
  #22  
Old 06-19-2024, 10:04 PM
Roberta's Avatar
Roberta Roberta is offline
Super Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Zone: 10a
Location: Coastal southern California, USA
Posts: 13,858
Dying Cattleya Female
Default

A note about phosphorus in orchid formulations... it's there mostly for pH adjustment (phosphate ion is somwwhat acidic) If you have tap water like mine (liquid rocks) it makes very little difference, the bicarbonate is a really strong buffer at pH 7.8 or so. But that's the reason that pure-water formulations like MSU are lower in phosphorus than the "balanced" 20-20-20. Ray (who is probably the most knowledgeable person on the Board with respect to fertilizers) has has very good success with his "K-lite" that has little or no phosphorus or potassium, does have calcium and magnesium, intended for use with pure water. The critical constituent, then, is nitrogen. The rest of the major constuents, take-it-or-leave-it. Calcium and magnesium are important if your water lacks them. Again, if you have liquid rocks coming out of the tap, the plants are getting plenty (and most Catts aren't particularly fussy about water quality, with the exception of those that used to be Sophronitis, which tend to like fairly pure water)
__________________
Orchids teach patience!

Roberta's Orchids (visit my back yard)

See what orchid species are blooming in Southern California(New page for DECEMBER 2024)
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes
Likes greyblackfish liked this post
  #23  
Old 06-19-2024, 10:39 PM
greyblackfish greyblackfish is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jul 2021
Zone: 9a
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 139
Dying Cattleya Female
Default

Oh good. I was worried about my orchids getting enough calcium and mg but our water here is also extremely rocky. My city sits on rocks, basically. I’ve been getting plenty of rainwater but I’ll be sure to mix some tap in as well. I’m pretty sure my fertilizer is 20-10-10 with the dreaded urea. But I’m on a tight budget and that’s all I have to work with for now.

There’s this article I found on urea that I’m not sure about. https://staugorchidsociety.org/PDF/O...ySueBottom.pdf I’m diluting my fertilizer less than half for now just to be on the safe side. I should really dilute it by 1/4 this year to see how they do.

Also it makes you wonder how orchids get their calcium and mg in the wild when some live on trees.
__________________
~Tina
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-19-2024, 11:01 PM
Brock Brock is offline
Member
 

Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 69
Dying Cattleya
Default

Thank you I will read the first rays articles.

Orchids like 100-200 ppm nitrogen. Phosphorus too much is actually supposed to prevent blooms. If every species of orchid is different how many species are they doing tests on. I can't find a 3 1 3 3 1 2 or something similar. I've always wondered why people don't use 5 5 5 instead of diluting a 20 20 20. Orcids prefer 75% nitrate 25% ammonium. I don't use meters are test anything. Costa Rican water is supposed to be very clean low ppm I know someone that tested one of those clay pot water filters and tap in Costa Rica it was the same no difference. I use a life straw water filter. Its made out of plastic. All the RODI water filters are made of plastic. The storage tanks aren't but I've always wondered. I need a Hanna ph meter for the berries.

Bamboo is controversial. I have bamboo already. Theres clumping and spreading my closet neighbors are 100 years away. I don't have black orchids growing on black bamboo but the contrast of greens here and there might make the black on black pop. You can eat bamboo and its the most sustainable resource. People even make charcoal out of it but I know once you plant it its difficult to remove and the runners and neighbors.

The roots that turned yellow were dendrophylax lindeni those and skinneri is all im trying to focus on for the time being. Orchid roots kind of grow from the base not the tip like hair. I always want to think the tips are growing. I was going to use some kelp I have 10 different water bottles spray bottles just kind of got side tracked with this catt. Kelp is a very lite fertilizer but has all your micro and macros. The fertilizer should have what type it is ammonium or nitrate I rarely see them with sulfate boron all the other stuff. Thanks for the help free nitrogen ions is what I'm trying to achieve even fermented fertilizer that is water soluble I don't know what the percentages are and the concept of you put whats missing back in with that dead plant material doesn't apply to epiphytes
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-19-2024, 11:19 PM
Roberta's Avatar
Roberta Roberta is offline
Super Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Zone: 10a
Location: Coastal southern California, USA
Posts: 13,858
Dying Cattleya Female
Default

The whole urea panic makes no sense to me... "urea free" fertilizer gets its nitrogen from ammonium nitrate. Free nitrate doesn't exist in nature, at least not where orchids grow. Ammonium nitrogen is, indeed, the most "available" form for plants. But they have to "process" the nitrate to get it to a reduced form they can use. The conventional wisdom is that because orchids don't live soil (soil organisms break down the urea to a form that plants can use) they don't have those organisms. But what do they get in nature? Rotting detritus, maybe with a bit of bird poop. All organic nitrogen. If orchids couldn't convert organic nitrogen to a useful form, they would not survive. (There are no little fairies flying around dispensing ammonium nitrate...) So this makes zero sense to me. No doubt minerals such as calcium and magnesium are also present in that "soup". Nature recycles!

I recall an early mentor, a very good orchid grower and delightful human being who is, alas, no longer with us, being asked what fertilizer he used. His reply, "Whatever is on sale at K-mart or Home Depot"... inevitably, loaded with urea. So much for that hypothesis.

---------- Post added at 07:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock View Post
Orchid roots kind of grow from the base not the tip like hair.
Wrong! You have it backwards. Roots grow from the tips. (Hair grows from a follicle, at the base, that's why you need a haircut now and then, cutting hair does not stop the growth) A new root has little green growing tips, as the root develops, the silver velamin (spongy coating) grows behind that growing area. That's why the ideal time to repot is just BEFORE the roots emerge. When roots are handled, some damage to the growing tips is inevitable (but you try to minimize it) If you catch it just as the roots emerge, if any get damaged there will be more coming along. Those tips have microscopic hairs, which will also grab the fresh medium... and adapt to it. If root tips (with those little hairs) are damaged, the root stops growing.

You will also read about people trimming orchid roots. When they do, those roots stop growing. Some orchids are such vigorous root machines that they make plenty of new ones. (It is done by some commercial growers to get Cymbidiums to fit into pots, and south Florida Vanda growers where they are being overrun. I NEVER cut healthy roots or even "maybe healthy" roots. My conditions don't lend themselves to such wild growth, and I'm also not a vendor who has manage their land as they turn over their stock. Not a long-term strategy)

Have you studied any chemistry???? There is no such thing as "free nitrogen ions". In fact, some plants have nodules containing bacteria that extract nitrogen from the air (turning it into organic nitrogen compounds) so plants can utilize it. Legumes come to mind. Farmers include them in their plantings to enrich the soil. Which has nothing to do with orchids... (In the presence of heat, like in an engine, N2 molecules in the air can be split apart, they immediately combine with oxygen in the air to make oxides of nitrogen - NOX - a major component of smog, that's why cars have catalytic converters to deal with the stuff)
__________________
Orchids teach patience!

Roberta's Orchids (visit my back yard)

See what orchid species are blooming in Southern California(New page for DECEMBER 2024)

Last edited by Roberta; 06-19-2024 at 11:55 PM..
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes
Likes greyblackfish liked this post
  #26  
Old 06-20-2024, 12:50 AM
Brock Brock is offline
Member
 

Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 69
Dying Cattleya
Default

Now I don't trim orchid roots like I wrote I look at them and wonder. It seems like their growing from the tip maybe that is were they get their length why do they get longer at the base? I had an orchid root mushroom. The tip kind of made a mushroom shape or bubble. I thought was this is going to be so interesting. The root grew longer but the tip stayed the same. Thats when I thought the must be growing from the base. Now I've seen a lot of orchid roots. Trimming off dead roots I haven't been but I have a few plants that aren't growing as vigorously as they were. I think is it because I didn't cut off dead roots. Now I know orchid roots are thin hairs and the sponge coats them. Obviously it is the sponge tip that mushroomed and the sponge coating velamen that gets thicker? Now nitrogen can exist by itself? Compost isn't like 5% nitrogen ions and the rest has to be broken down can take a year? Is compost 312 or just 1 1 1? Have you read the studies that all the nitrogen is in the beans and yes there is a bacteria that is called nitrogen fixing bacteria that a lot of people think stores bacteria in the soil but when that bacteria dies there goes the nitrogen and yes this bacteria breaks down difficult molecules from the air and turns it into nitrogen. Have you read any of the reports that said that legume crop a season before is kind of nonsense? I understand it very well. I don't test for anything and you understand that elements are in very long difficult to break down molecules and thats why you have to compost or ferment. Now all that beneficial bacteria and fungi comes into play with orchids and orchids are unique and can use urea, and human urine is 30 1 1 or 00 maybe 30 0 0 i don't think its 50 but hair is extremely high in nitrogen but takes a very long time to break down and the nitrogen to be usable. Jeff Lowenfels wrote a book called teaming with nutrients and an entire book on mycorrhizae!

---------- Post added at 11:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 PM ----------

Theres a lot of free nitrogen in the air I'm not a chemist I read teaming with microbes a year ago. I hope nobody feels I'm attacking them I'm not trying to come off as rude I'm just trying to learn!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-20-2024, 01:03 AM
Brock Brock is offline
Member
 

Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 69
Dying Cattleya
Default

Root meristems I don't really propagate like that or take tissue cultures I forget just like I want to think urea is 50 nitrogen. I've seen a bunch of crazy root stuff I sometimes delete pictures I can show you the root mushroom but I think this is high light first time I've seen it on a root. I feel like I need to delete this thread its kind of getting all over the place.
Attached Thumbnails
Dying Cattleya-20240518_085157-jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-20-2024, 04:41 PM
greyblackfish greyblackfish is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jul 2021
Zone: 9a
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 139
Dying Cattleya Female
Default

Please don’t delete the thread.
__________________
~Tina
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-20-2024, 05:08 PM
Roberta's Avatar
Roberta Roberta is offline
Super Moderator
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Zone: 10a
Location: Coastal southern California, USA
Posts: 13,858
Dying Cattleya Female
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greyblackfish View Post
Please don’t delete the thread.
I won't. If necessary I can close it to new posts...
__________________
Orchids teach patience!

Roberta's Orchids (visit my back yard)

See what orchid species are blooming in Southern California(New page for DECEMBER 2024)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
applied, bacterialcide, infected, removed, tissue


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cattleya forbesii Luis Renato Cattleya Alliance 2 02-15-2013 02:56 PM
Business Troubles?! Franco24 Orchid Lounge 16 02-02-2013 10:42 AM
Not so often seen Cattleya mooreana Rosim_in_BR Cattleya Alliance 8 02-05-2009 07:59 PM
Seldom seen Cattleya kerrii Rosim_in_BR Cattleya Alliance 16 02-02-2009 12:56 AM
Help!!!! My Cattleya violacea is dying! Brassavola Cattleya Alliance 15 08-13-2008 06:02 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:04 AM.

© 2007 OrchidBoard.com
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.37 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Clubs vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.