Physan 20 and Quantum Orchid compatibility

[fredfarmer]

The idea of a probiotic for orchids appeals to me, especially after repotting an orchid. Most media are sterile or close to it, so the flora in the newly potted orchid pot will quickly become whatever happens to be floating around the room the orchids are raised in – basically a crap shoot. In my case, an upstairs vacant room in a house built around the civil war era. Lord only knows what the microbial microcosm in there is. So I purchased some Quantum Orchid and have started to use it – especially on newly repotted orchids.

I also use Physan 20 mostly to control the algae that insists on inhabiting the small stones (mostly flat with an average diameter about ½ inch) that I get at our local beach) that are at the bottom of the trays in which I have my orchids. I gave up on aquarium stones because they kept sticking to the bottom of the orchid pots and then getting all over the floor when I removed the pots from the trays. There is usually some water in the trays, either specifically put there to raise the humidity or run-off from when I water the orchids.

The question arises – is the use of Physan compatible with the use of Quantum Orchid? After all, Quantum Orchid is a suspension of live micro-organisms and Physan 20 kills micro-organisms.

So I contacted the Physan 20 people to ask them about it. They responded almost immediately. Turns out that you can use both, but you have to be careful with timing. Thought some of you might be interested so below is a slightly edited version of what the Physan 20 staff person wrote back to me:

“Physan will not (distinguish between) beneficial vs. harmful bacteria when applied to a surface/medium. Physan breaks down into (non-antimicrobial compounds) after 7 days, which would be the point we would say the anti-microbial properties should abate. So our recommendation would be to apply diluted Physan with a foliar spray to the leaves and around the base of the plant (as opposed to a soil watering/drench). This way there is less overlap of Physan and a product like Quantum Orchid. I believe Quantum Orchid suggests application every 21 days, so the other suggestion (which I like better) would be to apply Physan either 7 days before applying Quantum Orchid, or applying it (on or after) day 14 which would give Quantum Orchid (ample) time to provide its beneficial properties.”

[Ray]

Quantum Orchid is a privately-labeled (and much more expensive) version of a product I sell, called Quantum-Total.

The folks at Ecological Labs that make it have told me unequivocally that such disinfectants will kill the bacteria. They recommended waiting at least two weeks after using a disinfectant before using their product.

In fact, even using it with chlorinated water will diminish the CFU count, although more slowly.

However, as the benefits of such probiotic treatments rely on continuous functioning of the microbes, inclus=ding periodic reinforcement of the colony, why would you kill it to control something as innocuous as algae?

[KatieM]

Great info from you both. Thank you for sharing!

I am a mainly outdoor grower and don't battle the algae, I let it do it's thing. Specifically for reasons Ray stated above (also I highly recommend his Quantum Total) but in addition to that, I would also spend all of my time battling it. I know there is the aesthetic reasoning, but it doesn't hurt the plants in my experience so I embrace the quote unquote messy growing. Will definitely keep this in mind next time I need to break out the physan!

[orkkid]

Great to know! I have been soaking new plants in rain (brought to room temperature) and Physan 20. Was wondering if the quantum bloom would be a good additive- glad to have an answer.

I use Copper Fungicide for a ‘step up’ from P20, I wonder how that interacts with Quantum bloom.

[Ray]

I don't know what "Quantum Bloom" is, as it is not one of the Ecological Labs probiotic products.

However, no bactericide or disinfectant is compatible with probiotics.

[orkkid]

Sorry- Quantum orchid is the product I meant. I seem to mentally auto replace the bloom in the sub header to be quantum bloom 😅

[Ray]

Originally Posted by orkkid

Sorry- Quantum orchid is the product I meant. I seem to mentally auto replace the bloom in the sub header to be quantum bloom 😅

Quantum Orchid is the privately-labeled version of Quantum-Total.

A few months ago, Ecological Labs found that the ingredient that made it so dark, also inhibited the growth the the primary, photosynthetic bacterium.

By eliminating it (the new stuff is MUCH paler), the count went from 900,000 cfu's to 9,000,000!

[MateoinLosAngeles]

I went through a rabbit hole of microbes months ago and what I learned is to first establish mycorrhizae (genus glomus) and then follow with bacteria such as the very popular Bacillus subtilis which is included in Quantum. Most of these microbes have a higher rate of survival in fermented bark.

When colonies are established, microbes such as Bacillus subtilis can survive treatments with Physan 20, albeit experiencing an important population decrease. The general recommendation I've seen is to wait two weeks to apply Physan 20 and then two weeks after application before applying probiotics again. I've also seen recommendations such as doubling recommended doses and frequency in order to establish a colony before transitioning into "maintenance" dosing.

The point is that most of these microbes antagonize potential plant pathogens, so the reason why you want to ensure a strong colony of beneficial microbes first is that when you disinfect and create sort of a "blank slate," the beneficial bacteria are in advantage to colonize faster than potential pathogens. Especially since some pathogens can stay dormant for a long time inside of plant tissue.

Bacillus subtilis and other beneficial bacillus seem to tolerate copper treatments.

Most of this information I got from European studies researching alternative solutions to synthetic pesticides for pathogens affecting economically significant crops. But in general, most of these studies seemed preliminary and used small samples, so there are no definitive and clear answers.