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  #1  
Old 11-27-2021, 11:23 AM
rbarata rbarata is offline
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As a side note, here's a few photos of some of my Cymbs just to make you feel more at ease.
Not really good looking, right?
They are always outside and they bloom heavily. Ugly leaves and Cymbs are always hand in hand.





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  #2  
Old 11-27-2021, 11:27 AM
Girl_With_An_Orchid Girl_With_An_Orchid is offline
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I wonder if he is spraying the tops or the bottoms of the leaves. The top has the waxy cuticle but if I remember high school biology right, the bottom of the leaf has all the stomata so the food could get in that way. Shadeflower, does this person have a blog/ YouTube/ social whatever where he talked about this? I’d be interested to hear his thoughts.

---------- Post added at 11:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------

Roberta, wow! Those leaves are something! And they look very much like mine so definitely reassuring. Thank you!
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Old 11-27-2021, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Girl_With_An_Orchid;973903
[/COLOR
Roberta, wow! Those leaves are something! And they look very much like mine so definitely reassuring. Thank you!
Actually, those Cym photos were from Rbarata, but I have plenty of leaves that look like those too. Cyms tolerate abuse nicely, tend toward ugly leaves, but bloom anyway. (Or maybe the abuse helps...)
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Old 11-27-2021, 11:38 AM
Girl_With_An_Orchid Girl_With_An_Orchid is offline
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Oh your right. Rbarata, thanks for the pics! I feel much better about mine now. I’m really grateful in general for this thread and everyone who’s posted. I was kinda freaking out about losing mine.
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Old 11-27-2021, 11:57 AM
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you won't lose them GwaO but from my understanding the symptoms shown on rbarata's cymbs are caused by a potassium deficiency.

Mine just started too actually and I've been feeding a bloom booster which has been helping the leaves stay greener.

I know it can be difficult to diagnose deficiencies, I've been studying them for months now and they can generally be categorised.

This I am most certain by now is a potassium deficiency, corrected by feeding a bloom booster in autumn otherwise these symptoms worsen over winter.

But that's just my theory. Either way will do fine like mentioned. Don't think of a bloom booster as something you need to get your cymb to bloom. Think of a blooom booster as something to use during blooming to keep leaves from turnnig yellow shortly after. At least that is how I see them from now on.

nitrogen will cause a general yellowing but it will be even, whereas potassium causes brown spots or necrosis to appear with uneven yelllowing (half the leaf green, half yellow starting at the tip)

Last edited by Shadeflower; 11-27-2021 at 11:59 AM..
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Old 11-27-2021, 11:52 AM
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With regard to fertilizer on the leaves... some orchids have evolved to actually channel runoff toward the roots. I'm thinking of Cym canaliculatum (V-shaped leaves capture dew in addition to rain). Of course, rain includes rotting organic matter above the plants in the trees, so it would do the same with nutrients. Vandas (strap leaf and semi-terete) do that too... they don't have pseudobulbs, so need to grab every bit of nutrition falling on them. And many Epidendrums too. The nutrients end up on the roots where they get absorbed, no matter how the plant acquires them. If they get their nutrition from detritus, it is really, really dilute. A higher amount of fertilizer may even tend inhibit blooming in some cases, favoring vegetative growth. (Do you want lots of pretty leaves or do you want flowers???) The guy who does the foliar feeding is actually giving the plants a much reduced dose of fertilizer that actually gets into the plant. That may explain the better blooms.
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Old 11-27-2021, 12:04 PM
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I haven't used a bloom booster ever... Actually, not all that much of anything. But in a sense I'm cheating... I live in one of the best climates in the world for growing Cyms. Put them on patio, squirt them with the hose when I think about it (OK, I water a lot), and they bloom their little heads off. So maybe special treatments make a difference under less-than-ideal conditions but I have not seen that they are particularly sensitive to anything. (Before I started using time-release fertilizer, I still got good growth and lots of flowers, the time-release just makes them look a little better)
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Old 11-27-2021, 01:54 PM
Girl_With_An_Orchid Girl_With_An_Orchid is offline
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I am currently using a high nitrogen fertilizer because I read that that helps get bulbs bigger. Mine a notoriously small and I hadn’t been able to figure out why. It’s probably because of light and water. Maybe the extra nitrogen isn’t helping like I thought though.

How does time release fertilizer work? Is it something I build into the potting mix? If so I’m assuming I would repot more often to replenish?

---------- Post added at 01:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 PM ----------

Shadeflower, it took me a minute to realize who GwaO was 😅. Should I try using a bloom booster instead of a regular 20-20-20 fertilizer?
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Old 11-27-2021, 01:58 PM
rbarata rbarata is offline
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Quote:
you won't lose them GwaO but from my understanding the symptoms shown on rbarata's cymbs are caused by a potassium deficiency.
Those are old leaves dying, I think.
I fertilize them full dose in every watering with Rain Mix so I don't think there's a K deficiency.
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Old 11-28-2021, 12:44 AM
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Those are old leaves dying, I think.
I fertilize them full dose in every watering with Rain Mix so I don't think there's a K deficiency.
I've been using Rainmix for the past 8 months. I've come to the conclusion it is not as good as my previous fertilizer.
Long term my cymbs would end up developing brown leaves. Even my fern developed yellow leaf tips.
I have fed that 2 bloom feeds and because ferns are fast growing that has shown the fastest results but my cymbidium has stopped yellowing. It's still too early to tell if it will green up again but nothing is declining and it's winter so it's a bad time to make good observations.

Admittedly on Rainmix alone there was hardly a problem, once I fed just a little bit more Phosphorous for a month did the plants start showing a serious potassium deficiency which I'm in the process of correcting.

I don't think you have anything to lose by trying it one year rbarata, you too for that matter Roberta.

But at the same time I think we have confused Girl_with an_orchid. dying leaf tips can also be fertilzing too much.

To clarify Rainmix is a low bloom formulation so when I talk about using a bloom booster it essentially turns a low bloom formulation into a balanced feed (low bloom + high bloom = balanced)

Most growers use a balanced feed, you can't go wrong with that. Occasionally you might want to add some bloom feed but generally with a balanced feed like 20-20-20 there is no need. It is formulated to have enough of all macronutrients for all year growing.

Some feeds are specially formulated but I am saying they cannot be used by themselves all year long. That's just from my observations. Lots of people are happy using Rainmix as it is. I am not most people. I actively compare and like I said Rainmix is not my first fertilizer. I think it is a great fertilizer to use for most of the year, I've been really impressed with root growth, it's just in autumn something was lacking and by winter by experimenting with different ratio's I created a severe potassium deficiency here myself.

I can show some pictures but rbarata's is arguably the best potassium deficiency example caused by only using Rainmix I have seen.

You can up the strength of the mix as much as you want, if you do not adjust the NPK ratio then the plant will always absorb the same ratio of nutrients but it needs a slightly different ratio at times.


The way I look at nutrients is like fish in a pond.

You have the macrofish. And the microfish. The pond will always be filled with lots of fish, far more than you could fish in a day. If there are an equal amount of Nitrogen fish to Potasium Fish to Phosphorous Fish then every day on average you will end up fishing an equal amount of NPK fish.

Now if you double the fish in the pond what will happen? You will maybe catch a fish or two more in a day but you will still on average catch an equal amount of N to P to K .
Now lets say one day you really fancy lots of K fish and have had enough of N fish, the only way that would happen is if you only add more K fish to the pond.

Now if you fish you will get more k fish on average.

That is why just doubling your nutrient concentration (with Rainmix anyway!) will not work.

If the plant wants more K, you have to reduce the N and P fish or increase the K fish in the pond. Usually there's always plenty of fish in the pond and doubling the fish will increase the catch by a little but it will not change the ratio of fish you are catching so if during blooming the plant want more k fish for a month but doubling the whole amount of fish in the pond will not solve that problem.

Ps: whether one sees Nutrients as vitamins or food is to me irrelevant. I see water, light, air and nutrients all as food. Without any of them the plant dies.

It's irrelevant if you stick it in a dark cupboard or if you water it plain RO water for a few months, the orchid will not survive. So you can argue about light being more important than nutrients and put it all into a hierarchy but at the end of the day if you provide light but 0 nutrients the orchids die. That's all there is to know whether you consider it essential food or essential vitamins. They are essential. That is why they are called as such whereas cobalt is a non essential nutrient.

Last edited by Shadeflower; 11-28-2021 at 01:44 AM..
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