Help! Persisting Mold in All repotted Phalaenopsis and Cattleya

[nuriko1set]

Thank you Everyone for such quick and enthusiastic responses! As for people in general liking to argue, unfortunately the internet has given us a chance to be more aggressive than we would normally be face to face since we are all hiding behind a mask of anonymity. In that note, I hope that I am able to give more positive energy back to you all for the responses and hope that you've all give me!

I have turned off my fan today, but have opened a window that is a bit far away so there's a bit of air movement! I will also dial down the fertilizer for the other healthier orchids. I will order Kelpmax to help the sick orchids grow more roots, and won't use fertilizer with them. Roots of the sick Equestris 100B are really wrinkled and dried out now, they have been airing out today. I still see the white mold residue stuck on the roots. At this point, my plan was to cut the sick roots, then pot it into airy bark mix in small pot and put it inside a plastic bag for humidity, and also to add KelpMax. Upon reading the above, I should NOT cut the sick/moldy roots? Won't that just contaminate my new potting mix?

Yes, I am mystified as to why everyone on Youtube is endorsing the use of peroxide. I wonder if it's like a conspiracy for new orchid growers, like me, to kill our orchids faster, then have to buy more, haha jk.

For the Cattleya's, I have 2 smaller plants in smaller pots (which I've repotted). They are the ones not doing too well. I thought they seemed too shriveled, so I watered them twice last week, HOWEVER, i was really sad to find blue/green mold spots on the center potting mix. I don't see any white mold on the roots, so far, but its a bit more inside and I can't see it very clearly. Granted these are plants that I've repotted and have sprayed peroxide on, but that was a few weeks ago (at least 3). And since they've been repotted, I've left them alone, other than watering and giving some fertilizer. I don't know if the mold was in there prior to watering twice/week (which I've only done last week). Given the above information, does it still seem like I'm not watering enough? It's so difficult to tell with so many varying factors and info adding into the equation.

For my other Cattleya that is, dare I say it, more healthy, I am trying to figure out the best water regime. I have stuck (gently) a bamboo stick into the potting mix near the middle of the pot, it's been in there since yesterday. I pulled it out to check the moisture, and it feels SLIGHTLY moist and a tiny bit cold. Should I water it? The pseudobulbs have some slight wrinkling since I've had it, for a month now. And the last time I watered was last Thur. So I thought it was getting a bit dehydrated and I should water it instead of once a week, maybe once every 4 or 5 days?

Sorry for my long post, not sure of posting etiquette. Should I split into several multiple posts instead of 1 long one?

Thank you everyone!

---------- Post added at 05:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:51 PM ----------

Hello Orchidtinkerer, when you diluted the peroxide, how much water vs. peroxide. Did you dip it or spray it? If dipped, how long did you leave it in there?
I realize these might be pretty 'dumb' questions, but I seem to lack intuition when it comes to plants as some other people have. So if it's not explained to me, I seem to not get it intuitively ...
Thank you!

[Roberta]

First of all, there are no "dumb questions" except maybe the unasked ones.

Honestly, I don't think that peroxide is even that great of a fungicide. There are some systemic fungicides that some on the forum use. I can't advise, since I don't use any of them - having not had the problem. Physan can kill algae, won't hurt the plants but also is purely a surface treatment. When I repot, I rinse roots off well, pull off what comes with a gentle tug (those are really done) but leave what doesn't. I also don't try to remove the stuck-on medium because preserving roots is more important than aesthetics. (It's all about roots...with good roots other problems pretty much take care of themselves) The rinsing (like under the faucet or hose) pretty removes what one doesn't want to carry over to the new environment. (Even a little liquid dish soap won't hurt, just rinse well after)

Of all the cultural factors, fertilizer is down at the bottom of the list... green plants make their own food, and since orchids grow very slowly (progress measured in months not days or weeks) they use any minerals very efficiently. Get the watering, medium, air circulation, temperature, light correct, THEN fertilizer can start to make a difference.

You really need to figure out where all that contamination is coming from - media, water, or??? Preventing problems is a whole lot easier than trying to cure them. So if you rinse off roots well, and pot into a medium that won't encourage it to come back (like bark, or inorganic if you go the semi-hydro route) you shouldn't need to treat for nasties.

Dehydration happens two ways... underwatering is obvious, but overwatering can do it too if the medium is soggy and airless and kills roots. (No roots, the plant will dehydrate because it has no way to take up water) So take a little longer view... the goal around the roots of any epiphytic orchid (most of them) is "humid air" - not soggy wet, but not dry either . So when you water, flush well - which pulls air into the root zone. As the medium dries a bit, water gets replaced by.... AIR.

How often to water is something you'll have to determine by observation, keeping that "humid air" goal in mind. If the medium is open and airy, it will dry out faster and then you need to water more frequently If it is open and airy enough, you can't overwater... the closer you can got to what a mounted plant experiences the better. Indoors, mounted plants are pretty hard to maintain so we use pots. But bottom line, they get lots and lots of air... and it is impossible to overwater a mounted plant. Fairly large bark mimics that. When they get just close to dry (not bone dry) it's time to water again. That could be anywhere from one day to 3 or 4 days depending on temperature and humidity.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by nuriko1set

For my other Cattleya that is, dare I say it, more healthy, I am trying to figure out the best water regime. I have stuck (gently) a bamboo stick into the potting mix near the middle of the pot, it's been in there since yesterday. I pulled it out to check the moisture, and it feels SLIGHTLY moist and a tiny bit cold. Should I water it?

If still moist, then you don't necessarily need to water it.

Cold is 'ok' ...... but up to a point. Some orchids won't handle 'relatively' cold and 'relatively' wet too well. That is - internal processing systems requiring roots etc to be at least at or above a particular temperature for satisfactory growth process operation. This doesn't necessarily mean an orchid can't handle relatively cold root conditions. It can depend on 'for how long' roots are cold and wet for.

This is good timing, as in a different thread, I wrote a fair a bit about watering when using a particular media that I generally use in the tropics over here. Some details could help you too maybe in the future. After a while, you will get a feel or understanding about when to water orchids without needing to stick something into the pot ----- since growers with lots and lots of orchids are not going to use a dip-stick for checking moisture content of each orchid. It becomes can become too time consuming ----- which is actually ok if one does have the time though.

On the other hand ---- if you have similar pots and similar potting mix ..... then using 1 single pot as a reference (control) could maybe allow you to get a rough idea about all the pots in the growing area.

If possible ----- estimate the temperature of roots and/or media inside the pot (not just during the days, but during the nights too). And if there is a breeze, also take into account that breeze plus cold temperature can mean even 'colder' temperature.

LINK to thread

[estación seca]

What are the temperatures in your growing area, day/night? What kind of light are your plants getting?

Photos would be helpful.

[nuriko1set]

It took me a while to figure out how to attach photos. Here are a few pics of my regular set up. I have them on a shelf that is very airy with light directly on top. The current temp. is around 60s, but the light makes it 70 degrees. The humidity has dropped from 40 to 30s. I really feel that I need a humidifier. Since it's not too cold yet, we like to open the majority of our windows throughout the day, so currently, the plant room has the windows open and a slight breeze.

Each plant has it's own plastic container for watering, and I labeled all of them to keep from confusion and cross contamination. All the pots that used bark, I will soak the whole pot into water for at least 30 minutes. I use a mixture of rain water and distilled water. Whenever I have gathered rain water, I'll use it, when I've run out I use distilled water.

Even though all my repotted plants have mold (shameful ...), I don't think it's cross contamination. I've never
watered different plants with the same water before, each plant has always had it's own watering container and they soak separately. I wash all the used pots / trays with bathroom cleaner that has bleach. I wipe down my shears with alcohol. I really hope it's not contamination after all these preventative steps I've taken.

There is also a picture of my poor messed up Phal. Equestris 100B. You might see that there are the dried white residue of mold still on the dried roots. It has a couple of new roots that were on their way to coming out before I took it out of it's pot. From the look of this plant, does it look like it's got stem rot? Is that why it looks so black on the stem? I feel that stems aren't usually this colored. I wonder if that's what gave it mold the first time.

I'm really afraid to pot it up again with the roots as is, and I'm soooo tempted to cut off the bad ones, but I've refrained until someone else has seen these pictures and could advise on cut or not cut before repotting. Can anyone let me know, after looking at these pictures, should I just pot without any other measures (like disinfecting, cutting bad roots, etc)?

The potting mix that I have on hand is from Repotme.com. However, I'm a bit skeptical about it, it had a strong smell when it first arrive. But I've baked it and have stored it in an air tight container. It's a mix of small bark, lava, perlite and those clay bead things (can't remember what they are called all of a sudden). I've included a picture of the mix from the website as well.

I think I should boil it a bit, to moisten it up. My questions is, should I boil the clay beads? or will that make them melt?

Thank you!

[Roberta]

Those roots in the first picture look seriously dehydrated,and rather rotten. I'd wash them off well (even with a bit of soapy water, then rinse well). Pot up in clean medium. (Those nasty old roots, well cleaned, will serve to anchor it firmly) Water only with flowing water, so nothing new gets in there. The leaves look pretty healthy, so odds are good that it will start some new roots.

Even if you're not sharing water, are you reusing it? Not good... anything that gets in stays in. Flowing water is far better - like under the faucet.

The mix looks good - fresh from the bag it should not need further treatment. Both temperature and humidity are on the low side for Phals, but temperature is adequate. You can compensate for the low humidity by more frequent watering - with clean, flowing water. That will give the roots the "humid air" that they want.

[nuriko1set]

Hello Roberta, thank you for the quick response!! Definitely not sharing or re-using the water, after soaking one plant I dump the water. I soak it because it seems that the bark dry up too fast by just running water. How long do you run the water for? Soon, we might not be able to do that as the faucet water will be too cold. There's a lot of hype about using distilled or rain water, instead of tap water. Is there any truth to that?

[Roberta]

If the faucet water is too cold, you could just add a bit from the hot water side to make it tepid. (There's nothing bad about what comes from the hot water tank). For the plants that I have inside, I just use a pump sprayer and squirt until the water runs out. (If you load up a watering can or pump sprayer and let it come up to room temperature that also solves the cold-water problem.) Will it dry out fast? Sure. So I just water more often... can be every other day or even every day. (Where I live, relatively low humidity is a fact of life) By allowing some drying out between waterings, you don't create an environment that encourages mold, etc. - that is a sure sign of being too wet for too long. And that flowing water flushes out the molds, fungi, etc. instead of creating a petri dish for them. Start clean, flush instead of soaking, and it will stay clean with no treatment.

For most orchids, tap water is just fine - Phaenopsis and most Catts are not fussy. There are some picky cloud-forest species that benefit from rain/RO/distilled water, but that's not what you are growing.

Now, obviously if you let water run through the pot, it has to go someplace, preferably not on the floor. Check out what I did when I was using the spare bedroom as a greenhouse... "egg crate", that open light-diffuser stuff that comes from Home Depot, works great. http://orchidcentral.org/GrowingAreas/indoor.jpg

[estación seca]

70 F / 21C maximum is cold for a Phal. equestris. That will make it difficult to resuscitate this plant.

The Cattleya will tolerate these temperatures but not be extremely happy.

Those temperatures are fine for the Dendrobium, especially in winter. It appears to be a Den. nobile hybrid or related species.

[Leafmite]

If your temperatures are low, perhaps you might wish to consider a different potting method that would allow plenty of air to the roots. I live in Ohio and our summers can be cool and wet and our winters are cool so I had to find a way of potting my orchids that would compensate for the cooler temperatures. I use basket pots. My Phal bellina is in one of these pots with a good quality long-fibered Sphagnum moss and really loves the set up. The Cattleyas are in these pots with lava rock. The Paph is in one of these with charcoal, rock, and large perlite.

This is a freshly potted Cattleya's set up.