Shrunken bulbs with black spots on cymbidiums

[drmab]

I recently received 4 large cymbidiums from SF , I don’t know how they were raised, (maybe outdoors?) but it took 4 days for shipping them bare root.
On arrival, these were mature plants, with shrunken bulbs and black spots on both the bulbs and leaves. (I don’t think these were related to the 4 day shipping!)
Is this a virus, or simply under watering?
I have now repotted them in bark, and spray them with listerine and a spray of sulfur and pyrethrins ( Bonide citrus fertilizer product), and have not watered them since repotting 4 days ago.
I would appreciate any ideas/advice. Thank you.

[SouthPark]

It's hard to say what happened. And not easy to assess the situation without more details --- such as photographs or description about the degree of the reduction in bulb size.

Black spots/patches etc can be due to pathogen activity, or could be due to transportation damage (eg. abrupt temperature changes and/or undesirable temperatures reached during transit etc). Or some other cause. Hard to say for now.

New members can sometimes post/uploaded images without the '5-post' limitation (not sure why!). You could try to upload images - that can help with the assessment of the situation.

For now, yes ---- definitely, have the orchid in a medium light area with nice gentle air-movement, and provide a bit of water to the media - so that hopefully the plant can recover - get re-hydrated a bit. This is assuming it's not due to bulb rotting.

[drmab]

Thank you for the reply. I hope these pics show the problem! One plate showed all the back bulbs I removed and discarded.

[drmab]

All the discarded back bulbs came from one plant!

[Roberta]

The repotted plants look fine. (Personally, I'd use smaller bark... they do like to stay on the damp side, semi-terrestrial) They needed repotting... those old, dead back bulbs are normal, they just should have been dealt with a few years ago. Cyms are tough. Black spots are not a big deal... superficial fungal/bacterial insults that Cyms tend to get. Not virus. Actually, Cym leaves tend to be rather ugly. But the flowers... Oh baby...

Pretty much guaranteed they grew outside if they were from San Francisco (or most of the rest of coastal California)... that's where we grow them in this part of the world.(Frost free or just a few degrees of frost for a few hours) You didn't say where you live... further advice needs that information.

[drmab]

You are reassuring, thank you, Roberta! I live in northern Florida, and I do have concerns about the winter not getting cold enough to flower.
This lady had tons of cymbidiums, and decided to sell them off, and my friend bought 30! So they must have been neglected.

1) If it is ok to repot again a week later, should I remove all the old back bulbs? My reading online said to leave one or two?

2) Also, I forgot to mention - one of the plants (not sure if that was the one with all the old back bulbs that I removed and had to divide) that I repotted had a new growth (of 2 or 3 leaves) that was wilting and when I tugged gently on it, it came off and was brown and mushy and smelled fishy!

3) Should I pull the plant out and maybe treat it with sulfur powder, or cinnamon, or the spray combination of sulfur and pyrethrins, or Listerine?

4) I just repotted these last Saturday - and the mix is a combination of bark,perlite and something else. Will it hurt the roots if I repot it again, and what do you think
5) of adding coconut coir, and charcoal or some soil? Should I water them with a very weak fertilizer solution at this time?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my myriad questions! Your expertise is much appreciated.
Marietta

[Roberta]

They don't need to freeze to bloom... just need some cool nights and warm days in the fall so northern Florida should be fine. (I am starting to get spikes that will bloom in the winter, and just finally got to those 60- deg F nights with 80-85 deg F days that they love)

Having just repotted them, you can go ahead and move them if you want to but you don't need to. They really aren't growing that much now, ideal potting time is late winter into spring when they are putting out new growths. But considering the fact that they needed some love right now, potting a bit out of season won't hurt them.

Leave any back bulbs that are firm - those reserves are very important for the health of the plant, especially if roots are in poor condition (which they probably were) Back bulbs will eventually shrivel, but they will give energy to the plant for new growth in the meantime. That mushy, smelly new growth needed to come off... you can dust the cut with cinnamon (but keep it off the roots) but mostly the wound will just dry up of its own accord. Keep the plant a bit dry for a week or so to help that process.

The mix that they are in is likely OK - you will just have to water a bit more. But your humidity is a lot higher than mine (and you get actual rain... here, "rain" mostly comes out of a hose) so I think just leave them. In the late winter/early spring when you see new growth you can repot if they seem to be drying out too fast. Also don't worry about fertilizer at this point... they don't need much, if any, in winter. Once they start growing, you can make your life easier with a top-dressing of time-release (like Nutricote) - growing Cyms are hungry. I give mine the 120-day stuff if I can find it, otherwise 90-day is OK too. Then when I do my regular orchid fertilizing, I give them a drink, but it's really dilute so they do grow better with the extra boost.

Basically, Cyms are one of the least-fussy orchids that one can grow if you are in a suitable climate (which you are) They don't require cold (just that fall cool-down) but can tolerate it. With just a bit of shading, they can tolerate triple-digit (F) summers.

[drmab]

Hank you so much!

---------- Post added at 08:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:11 PM ----------

Sorry - thank you!

[drmab]

Originally Posted by Roberta

They don't need to freeze to bloom... just need some cool nights and warm days in the fall so northern Florida should be fine. (I am starting to get spikes that will bloom in the winter, and just finally got to those 60- deg F nights with 80-85 deg F days that they love)

Having just repotted them, you can go ahead and move them if you want to but you don't need to. They really aren't growing that much now, ideal potting time is late winter into spring when they are putting out new growths. But considering the fact that they needed some love right now, potting a bit out of season won't hurt them.

Leave any back bulbs that are firm - those reserves are very important for the health of the plant, especially if roots are in poor condition (which they probably were) Back bulbs will eventually shrivel, but they will give energy to the plant for new growth in the meantime. That mushy, smelly new growth needed to come off... you can dust the cut with cinnamon (but keep it off the roots) but mostly the wound will just dry up of its own accord. Keep the plant a bit dry for a week or so to help that process.

The mix that they are in is likely OK - you will just have to water a bit more. But your humidity is a lot higher than mine (and you get actual rain... here, "rain" mostly comes out of a hose) so I think just leave them. In the late winter/early spring when you see new growth you can repot if they seem to be drying out too fast. Also don't worry about fertilizer at this point... they don't need much, if any, in winter. Once they start growing, you can make your life easier with a top-dressing of time-release (like Nutricote) - growing Cyms are hungry. I give mine the 120-day stuff if I can find it, otherwise 90-day is OK too. Then when I do my regular orchid fertilizing, I give them a drink, but it's really dilute so they do grow better with the extra boost.

Basically, Cyms are one of the least-fussy orchids that one can grow if you are in a suitable climate (which you are) They don't require cold (just that fall cool-down) but can tolerate it. With just a bit of shading, they can tolerate triple-digit (F) summers.

Good afternoon everyone!

This is a follow up to my saga with the shrunken bulbs on my cymbidiums.

I am afraid these are now non-salvageable.
To recap, after 4 days of shipping bare root, (from SF), I potted them up in bark. The roots were brown but some were still firm. After 6 days, I watered them yesterday.

Today I took them out of their pots, wanting to add coco coir. I found ALL the roots shrunken, limp and brown. One back bulb was quite mushy and smelly, so had to cut that off one plant. I had to cut ALL the roots off ALL the plants!

Now, can I save these? I sprayed the bottoms with Listerine, and now I have them all in a bit of water at the bottom, but not soaking the bulbs or the green stuff.

Any suggestions? I am afraid this is money down the drain?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[Roberta]

Put them back in their pots and leave them alone, let them do their thing... new growth will produce new roots. The old roots (even if bad) will serve to anchor the plants - having them firmly in the pot is very important. so that new roots don't get damaged by wobbling (use stakes if necessary) As long as there are some firm pseudobulbs (with or without leaves) the plant has the reserves for new growth even with poor roots. (Old pseudobulbs may shrivel as new growth develops, that's OK...that is the purpose of a reserve ) But now, just water to keep damp but not soggy. Don't expect to see much action until late winter (February-ish) Don't bother with fertilizer until you see new growth starting. Patience...

(4 days bare root was not the problem... being more than a few years overdue for repotting was the problem) Plants from "legacy" collections are often in poor shape... but often do come back with a little TLC. Orchids are tough... and Cyms are among the toughest.