3 phals, 3 types of spots

[SundayGardener]

Hello,

I have a few things going on with different phals (2 NOIDs and one phal equestris).

The first is on a phal in semihydro. It's on a few phals in SH, not just this one. Initially I thought maybe too much sun, but then very slowly the leaf would be consumed, dry up and fall off. Then I thought fungus, and tried Cleary's but that only seemed to accelerate the spread and kill the leaf off faster. It's very slow, and takes the upper leaves. Looking for thoughts on what it is and how to treat. I included an image of the underside of the leaf, because it sometimes shows up there first (which is why I was thinking fungus).

The second is also a NOID in SH, but the spots are different and don't seem to do anything. Too much sun? Something more insidious?

The third is the equestris which had been fine until 2 weeks ago and now has these yellow blotches. It has been under T5HO for months, but I did try to move it to more shaded location. With the change in seasons, outside light from the window may be upping the intensity. I think this one more than the other 2 is related to change, possibly in temperature or light? I have other phals right next to it that are fine.

[aliceinwl]

They do kind of look like some of the photos I’ve seen of orchid fleck virus. I guess my inclination would be to isolate the affected plants and play with lighting, temperature, and media and see if it self corrects in case it is due to environmental issues.

[orchidwitch]

I agree about the fleck virus. I would do a super thorough inspection for mites, since that is how it's usually spread.

[Swimmingorchids]

I will blame the semi hydro. I'd ditch it. If you research it properly you will find the people that claim it works show off plants straight out the shop. Can take 2 months for problems to show.

It can work but never as well as pretty much any other method... Stick them in some bark. I know nothing about the fleck virus so it might be a lost cause but that is what I would do.

edit: ok looking at your picture it looks like you are not doing the semi hydro I thought you were doing. One of the plants looks like its potted in soil standing in a bowl of constant water.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Swimmingorchids

I will blame the semi hydro. I'd ditch it. If you research it properly you will find the people that claim it works show off plants straight out the shop. Can take 2 months for problems to show.

It can work but never as well as pretty much any other method... Stick them in some bark. I know nothing about the fleck virus so it might be a lost cause but that is what I would do.

edit: ok looking at your picture it looks like you are not doing the semi hydro I thought you were doing. One of the plants looks like its potted in soil standing in a bowl of constant water.

OK, Swimmie. Now you've gone too far. I've been trying to be nice, but now you must be talking out of a part of your body that normally doesn't issue words, as you obviously don't know what you're taking about. If I wanted to state that more kindly, I'd say "teaching more than you know."

I have been growing plants in semi-hydroponics for about 30-35 years. Tropical plants, orchids, even herbs and vegetables. If you know what you're doing, understand the needs of the particular plant, and understand how semi-hydro culture and the rest of your cultural parameters interact to provide the growing environment, it is a very viable technique and quite a few plants grown that way have been awarded.

In our earlier "discussions" about stuff you know less about that you purport, I mentioned plants that grow and multiply quickly, and they were all in S/H.

I have no doubt that your comments are - again - due to your lack of experience with orchids, but please understand that NO growing technique is universal. What works for one might be certain death for another. When I grew in a warm, humid greenhouse in PA, all of my phalaenopsis plants were in S/H culture and thrived. Now that we downsized to NC and I am a windowsill grower again, I have switched them all to sphagnum, as in the winter, S/H is too cold for the root system due to the dry air and the associated evaporative cooling. My paphs and phrags however, are still in S/H and growing like weeds.

The bottom line is that any plant can be grown well in semi-hydroponic culture, but that does not mean that any individual can do so.

I invented the technique, so likely have more experience with it than anyone else, but there are plants I have never been successful with, while others tell you the same plant is the idea beginner plant.

Please stick to discussing things you know, and not your half-baked assumptions and suppositions.

[SundayGardener]

Some are in semihydro and some are in bark (not in soil). The ones in bark are never standing in water, but my pictures may look that way.

At this point, they have been treated with Bayer for potential mites/mealies/scale. I actually treated everything with Bayer the last time around to cover all bases. Allowing time in between treatments, I have also swabbed the spots with Mancozeb.

After one of the plants lost its last leaf, I threw it out. The equistris with the pale yellow spots seems to have rebounded after I moved it to a different location. I have one or two that continue to get worse, with leaves falling off, and others that seem stable.

I'll look into fleck virus. With a few exceptions, these are primarily noids, but I'm pretty sad that my favorite noid phal of all time caught the plague.

As for the semi hydro, the ones that are in it have been in it for a year now. Interestingly for me, I thought that having them in SH might make fall and spring transitions easier (the phals always seem to go to pieces with significant changes in weather). That did not happen, but I don't think it is related to SH, I think it is more related to different ailments and my having trouble identifying them and treating them properly in a timely manner. Previously I was doing Bayer once a year, in the fall, with followups as I thought required, but now I am planning on a minimum of twice annually. I also have azamax which I haven't tried yet. I do use cinnamon on phals (leaves only, not roots).

[Swimmingorchids]

Ray most of the plants you grow look like they have come out of the body part you are trying to descibe so you can take your comments and ram them right up there too if there is any space left.

Lets go back to you being a know it all twat

And me ignoring your childish need to have the last word so go ahead post some utter rubbish just to finish off this post but do realize that this is becoming a bit of a joke lol.

How can anyone take you seriously by now is beyond me.

[SundayGardener]

SO, returning to the topic of fleck virus, I have read up a little and indeed this does look like fleck virus.

I sterilize my tools and the equipment I use to water, and I water each orchid individually. Clearly I need to take ongoing action to keep mites and potentially other perps in check. As I understand it, there is no cure for fleck virus. For the orchids that are the most afflicted, I think I will let them go, for the ones that seem relatively healthy, I will monitor and wait.

Thank you all for the helpful pointers! I feel much better just knowing what it most likely is

[WaterWitchin]

Originally Posted by SundayGardener

SO, returning to the topic of fleck virus, I have read up a little and indeed this does look like fleck virus.

I sterilize my tools and the equipment I use to water, and I water each orchid individually. Clearly I need to take ongoing action to keep mites and potentially other perps in check. As I understand it, there is no cure for fleck virus. For the orchids that are the most afflicted, I think I will let them go, for the ones that seem relatively healthy, I will monitor and wait.

Thank you all for the helpful pointers! I feel much better just knowing what it most likely is

SO, speaking of fleck virus... I think the first three pictures and last two pictures do look like a virus. The bright yellow chlorotic look along with the black spots. The fourth and fifth picture to me look more like a mechanical or bug type damage. I get similar damage like that at times in summer when a big grasshopper, Japanese beetle, etc decides to march along a leaf and munch.

Viruses are such a hard topic... especially for the hobby grower. The mere thought of virus makes us run around like chickens in a panic. (Didn't we used to have a chicken emoji?)

My usual go-to is when in doubt, I cut back leaves, cinnamon dust, then do watchful waiting. Regardless of whether I've owned the plant for a month or a decade. I've done the same with pbulbs that had dark streaks... cut them off and moved on. And I've done some pretty reckless trimming on poor looking leaves. And quite a lot of the time, I don't even bother with the cinnamon. It happens a LOT to me, because they're outside in summer.

Now... if I cut back something that looks "suspicious" to me, and I see it taking over the plant again a week or two later, I either cut more severely and isolate for awhile, or a lot of times I pitch the plant. Depends on how fast it looked bad, how much I care about the plant.

I've had orchids go through hail storms, and a week later look like they had the virus from hell. Had I not witnessed how it happened, I'd have been pitching plants right and left. There's so many ways an orchid can suffer damage that "looks" like a virus, but isn't. As I said, I'd be most concerned about the ones with the bright yellow chlorotic looking spots, especially the last two pictures.

I'd say most of the time, it's bacterial or fungal infection. And I've yet to ever put a fungicide or bactricide (is that a word) on any of them. It usually just goes away. And Oncidiums are horrible about looking fleck virusy.

But I'm no virus expert. Just an orchid grower hobbyist with a couple decades plus of trial and error under my belt. And as info, most of my orchids have been in S/H for more than a decade. So that's not where I'd start in figuring it out.

If you keep them around, please give a shout-back later on for any updates. Good Luck!

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Swimmingorchids

Ray most of the plants you grow look like they have come out of the body part you are trying to descibe so you can take your comments and ram them right up there too if there is any space left.

Lets go back to you being a know it all twat

And me ignoring your childish need to have the last word so go ahead post some utter rubbish just to finish off this post but do realize that this is becoming a bit of a joke lol.

How can anyone take you seriously by now is beyond me.

Wow! Now you're really grasping at straws.

How would you know anything about plants I grow? That statement sounds like it's coming from a spoiled child.

Folks take me seriously because of my experience, my knowledge of orchids courtesy of 45 years of studying them, the fact that I give solid advice when I can, and if I am making a guess, I say so.

Your limited number of posts here have been rife with incorrect information.

This will be my final statement. Unless, of course, you continue posting ridiculous information.