Tree mounting Phalaenopsis gigantea in zone 10a?

[Kostas]

Hello!

I would like to try growing a Phalaenopsis gigantea tree mounted outdoors yearround in my Pyrgos garden.
Pyrgos is generally humid even in the summer and at night there is almost always dew. The microclimate under the tree i plant to mount it on is even more humid thanks to protection from an unheated building on one side and from a wall contacting soil for its full 2,5m height,on the other side,which should keep the area warmer as well. The many understory plants help on that as well! Pyrgos receives arround 1000mm of rain annually with most during winter but they are generally well distributed from September through May. There is usually no rainfall during the 3 summer months. Pyrgos is relatively warm yearround with almost all days above 10C even during the worst period of winter. Annual lows are -1C to -2C and every 20 years or so we get a bad freeze with a record of -3,6C. Pyrgos has only 1-2 nights in total of such temperatures and they only occur just before sunrise and then it warms up fast to 10C or more. The area i want to mount this orchid has an even better microclimate and it may actually never freeze there or it might be more like -1C or -2C during the worst winter and this would be under tree canopy so frost shouldnt be an issue.
Do you think Phalaenopsis gigantea can handle that with proper mounting? The trunk of the tree is leaning for a good part so its even possible to mount the P. gigantea under it if that would help. Watering would be daily(night) in winter(unless it rains)and bi daily in summer(morning and night)via spaying of the trunk with microsprinkels(or any other better way you propose). Any info you can give me on the proper way to mount it(position on the trunk,media used to wrap on the trunk and hold some extra moisture maybe,etc)and of its watering when tree mounted outside,would be really appreciated. This tree's trunk will eventually be filled with epiphytes, on its upper side mainly, including Monstera deliciosa,Asplenium nidus,Vanilla planiflora,Zamia pseudoparasitica and others so extra protection from those other plants will come before a record cold hits.

Please share your experiences and thoughts growing tropical Phalaenopsis outdoors! I grow many tropical palms in my garden,including ones that are considered as sensitive like Kerriodoxa elegans and cold sensitive cycads like tropical plicate leafed Zamia without problems so far(no record cold yet though...hopefully my canopy fills before it comes!).

Thank you very much in advance!

[Anisa]

Welcome to the forum!
What temperatures get it under your tree where you plan to mount a Phalaenipsis?
+10C and anything below is too low to successfully grow Phalaenopsis. It would die at temperature -1C. Instead of mounting it on a tree you could mount an a removable piece of wood and when temperature is low for a longer time period you could bring it inside.

[s1214215]

Hi Kostas

You might be ok mounting cool tolerant to cool growing species. Some species aer deciduous and actually grow in quite cold areas in China and Vietnam. I was told by a friend that he has seen Phal wilsonii growing in areas of Szichuan province in China where it gets below 10c in the winter. Mind you, they dont like summer to be very hot either.

Brett

[Kostas]

Thank you very much for your replys

Hi Anisa,

The lowest it gets for the most part is 10+ during the day and 6+ during the night at the worst part of the winter. 1 or 2 random nights it may get to -1C or -2C in unprotected areas but i would guess it shouldnt get below 0C there thanks to the canopy and walls which heat the air. These temprratures only occur just before sunrise so the duration of the absolute minimums is very short.
I unfortunately dont live in Pyrgos so protecting it for the worst night is not an option for me.
Do you know from experience that tropical Phalaenopsis will die at -1C? If yes,even then i may get away with it if it stands 0C.


Hi Brett,

Thank you very much for the info!
I am interested in mounting Phalaenopsis gigantea. Do you know of anyone who has tried mounting outside an evergreen Phalaenopsis in areas which experience 0C?



Many tropical plants,the great majority of them,stand temperatures much lower in cultivation than we would expect given their habitat so what we think might be too low,may be actually be tolerable! Has anyone tried keeping a tropical Phalaenopsis outside yearround or has anyone had an evergreen Phalaenopsis experience close to 0C or below?

Given the information i gave you,what mounting location of the tree trunk would offer it the best chance of survival? The trunk leans west to east and i can mount it up to 2meters high.

Thank you very much in advance!

[BobInBonita]

I have phals that have survived outdoors in Florida to 38 or 39 F. That converts to between 3 and 4 C.

When I know it is going to be cold, I try to give them a good watering 3-4 days before the low temp, and then let them dry until temps are safely warm again. Watering in cold weather seems particularly damaging to phals. The parentage of the particular plant must make a significant difference - although I have many growing within a few feet of each other, some seem to tolerate cold better than others. My phals are all noids, so I have no idea on parentage, but they are all in similar bark mixtures, with very similar temps, watering, and light.

When we first moved to Florida, I tried naturalizing dendrobiums, cattleyas, and phals in oak and palm trees. I had no idea what I was doing, but they were inexpensive, so why not. The phals were the first to go - most didn't make the first winter. The dendrobiums were the next to die. The cattleyas survived for several years, but eventually all but one succumbed to nature (either the occasional cold snap or animals climbing up and down the trees). After several years, the cup of the palm frond that I had mounted the last catt in fell of, and I relocated it to a more sheltered area. It is now growing well and has bloomed the last two years.

It sounds like your conditions are similar to mine, and very borderline. If your specific microclimate is just a little warmer, you might succeed, if you have just one night where it stays below 3C for even an hour, I think you will have a problem with phals.

You can either try it with the most inexpensive plants you can find, knowing they might not make it, or you can research further and actually use a max/min thermometer to find the actual lows in your particular micro-climate. Here in Florida, even the predominant wind direction makes all the difference. If we have wind from any direction BUT one, the wind comes over relatively warm water before it hits my part of Florida - they have frosts and freezes just a mile or two away. When the wind comes from the NNW and then curves around to come from the North, it travels over the peninsula without any moderating effect and I need to protect my plants or most would die. Fortunately, my growing area is pretty well protected from that direction, but I still get some damage. I cover all my orchids with large tarps whenever it is predicted to drop below 40F.

Best of luck if you go ahead with this. Keep us posted on how you fare.

[Weebl]

Ive heard of people successfully growing Phalaenopsis down to 0 degrees C; however, they had them mounted and let them dry quite a bit for the cold season. Unfortunately Phalaenopsis gigantea has an infamous reputation for rot, and quite pricey for an experimental go. However, if you're determined to try it then go for it and let us know how it goes.

If you're looking for other Phalaenopsis that will grow well outdoors for you, P. taenialis, wilsonii, honghenensis and hainanensis all seasonally experience cold winters in the wild.

[Kostas]

Thank you very much both for your very helpful replies!

Bob,
I don't know if it falls below this temperature or not in the specific location I plan on mounting my Phalaenopsis gigantea but I bet it will be around there or below for a few minutes at dawn. What damage do your Phalaenopsis get from these temperatures? Rot,leaf damage or root damage from cold(appearing like sun burn,or different?)? Does it take them months to look good again?

Since I would have to wait for next winter if I am to measure exact temperatures prevailing at that spot,I will probably try it and see but it's good to know what damage to expect to maybe plan the location or mounting way better!

Thank you very much for your wish! I will keep you posted!


Weebl,

That's great and very promising to hear! I will have it mounted so rot should not be an issue as aeration would be good. I could remove any moss between the roots as well for the winter to facilate drying and air circulation.
My Phalaenopsis gigantea is not a mature plant and so wasn't too expensive.

Thank you very much for the list of hardy Phalaenopsis! My heart is set on P. gigantea For it's sheer size and beauty and would prefer to grow this species if possible! Have you heard or know of a tropical Phalaenopsis sp. surviving 0C with little or no damage?

If I go for it anyway,I will let you all know how it goes! If you have any more advise on how to do it correctly and most successfully,please let me know!


Thank you very much in advance!

[epiphyte78]

Honestly, it's probably one of the last orchids I'd suggest for your growing conditions. A while back I ended up purchasing a batch of orchids which contained more than a few that I was pretty sure wouldn't grow outside. So I posted them on the forums and traded them for orchids that I was more confident of their survival.

That being said, more and more I've been experimenting with lowland tropicals with pretty good success. However, none of them have been from rainforests...they've all come from dry forests.

Here are a couple charts comparing the climate of Ierapetra, Greece to that of Phalaenopsis gigantea...


Sources: Orchid Culture, Weather Reports,Temperature Charts


Sources: Orchid Culture, Weather Reports,Temperature Charts

I'd give it a 1% chance of survival. It sure would be very awesome though if it survived! I've tried probably a dozen or so common Phalaenopsis hybrids outdoors and none have survived...but some have held on longer than others. Here's a chart comparing the average temps of Ierapetra, Greece to where I live here in Glendale, CA...


Sources: Orchid Culture, Weather Reports,Temperature Charts

Here's an excellent AOS article on Growing Orchids Outdoors in Southern California.

Maybe Pyrgos has a climate more like Santa Barbara? My friend in Santa Barbara has posted more than 743 photos of orchids he grows outdoors.

In an even more difficult climate...my friend in Rome, Italy grows quite a few orchids outdoors. You can contact him on flickr for his list of outdoor orchids.

If you get a Zamia pseudoparasitica...let me know how it does. I'm interested in epiphytes in general and would love to try growing epiphytic...
- Clivias (Clivia caulescens, Clivia gardenii),
- Amaryllis (Hippeastrum calyptratum)
- Rhododendrons (Rhododendron lamrialianum, Rhododendron lanceolatum, Rhododendron leucogigas, Rhododendron lindaueanum)
- Fuchsias (Fuchsia fulgens)
- etc. etc. etc....