LP heater question

[nancy]

Greetings -
I got a heater unit that screws onto the top of a propane tank (like a barbeque grill uses); even on 'low' it puts out an impressive amount of heat.
So, I know that people who use natural gas or oil-fueled heaters have to be very cautious in using these around orchids, because even a slight gas leak will cause bud drop in orchids.
Does anybody know if propane would have the same effect? I've been using a little electric box heater when the nights are too cold (and winter has come astoundingly early to balmy south Louisiana). I'd sure like to use this propane heater, but not at the cost of my buds!
Thanks - Nancy

[Ross]

It's my understanding liquid propane also emits gases as biproducts of combustion, similar to the other gases. Carbon monoxide is a given, thus the instructions to burn only in a well-ventilated space. To the best of my knowledge, only heaters directly vented to outside are safe to use with plants like in greenhouses or your own house. It's also not just bud-drop that you should be worried about but gassing yourself, as well.

[BikerDoc5968]

If you have this piece of equipment connected correctly, there shouldn't be ANY gas leaking to cause bud drop.... if there is, I think you're going to have a much larger problem than bud drop!!!!!!! I've been using a 20,000 Btu natural gas heater that is NOT vented to the outside and have never had a problem. As long as the equipment is functioning normally there should be very little or no CO produced; only CO2 and H2O are the products of combusting natural gas and propane as long as there is sufficient oxygen for the combustion, otherwise CO will be produced.

[Ross]

Originally Posted by BikerDoc5968

If you have this piece of equipment connected correctly, there shouldn't be ANY gas leaking to cause bud drop.... if there is, I think you're going to have a much larger problem than bud drop!!!!!!!

Doc, she said the unit was connected directly to the gas bottle. That sounds like a catalytic unit to heat patios, etc. There is no way I know of to vent the CO from an enclosed space like a greenhouse (at least easily). It's kinda like - would you run your heater inside your greenhouse with no outside vent?

[BikerDoc5968]

I understand that but it still has to consume O2 to burn so if all is working correctly she should only have H2O and CO2 as the the byproducts of combustion....as she said like a BBQ grill.... maybe I'm missing something here 'cause I've never seen any of those patio heaters working....sorry for my brain-dead situation, but you knew that, Ross

[Ross]

Originally Posted by BikerDoc5968

I understand that but it still has to consume O2 to burn so if all is working correctly she should only have H2O and CO2 as the the byproducts of combustion....as she said like a BBQ grill.... maybe I'm missing something here 'cause I've never seen any of those patio heaters working....sorry for my brain-dead situation, but you knew that, Ross

No, you aren't misconstruing anything. My opinion comes from having used these things. You are right - in a perfect world, a perfectly adjusted space heater will be safe. But, why do the labels warn about using them only in ventilated spaces (such as an outdoor patio)? Because it's impossible to get 100% combustion to CO2 and water as you suggest. There will almost always be CO as well. Doesn't take much of that stuff to put you under for a while. Also I would be afraid of other gases that will lead to bud blast - this was the original question. My advice was to stick with a vented heater.

[BikerDoc5968]

Agreed....

[Ross]

Originally Posted by nancy

Greetings -
I got a heater unit that screws onto the top of a propane tank (like a barbeque grill uses); even on 'low' it puts out an impressive amount of heat.
So, I know that people who use natural gas or oil-fueled heaters have to be very cautious in using these around orchids, because even a slight gas leak will cause bud drop in orchids.
Does anybody know if propane would have the same effect? I've been using a little electric box heater when the nights are too cold (and winter has come astoundingly early to balmy south Louisiana). I'd sure like to use this propane heater, but not at the cost of my buds!
Thanks - Nancy

Nancy, back to the original question - no I wouldn't do the propane heater thing. In your kneck of the world, I would stck with a electric space heater as being the safest. A way lot less mess and fuss as well. The propane heaters are far from easy to use, especially around plants. Just my 2 cents, based on prior experience.

[nancy]

Hmmmm, well you both are telling me a horrific story here! My little electric heater isn't 'vented' in any way - that's okay? The directions for this heater (of course) warn against using it indoors, as it consumes O; we don't get much cold weather here, and there are a few stories every winter of people running a generator or outdoor heaters indoors (even a charcoal grill!) for heat and asphyxiating the entire family. However, my little glasshouse is sitting out in the yard - it doesn't have any kind of venting system, but has one of those automatic vents (wax-filled piston opener) that opens at a certain temperature.
I'm not worried about carbon monoxide harming me, as I have to open a big sliding door to enter, and that pretty much vents a space that small...and I think plants like the carbons, both mono- and di-. I did the test indicated in the instructions, spraying down the connection to the tank with soapy water to watch for bubbles, and there were none...but I am still concerned about my buds and propane, myself and CO not so much.
When I lit this heater the first time, I did think I smelled hair burning, and checked to see that I still had eyebrows.
I will have to think on this some more before using it - tried it in a shed full of tropicals - they don't need to be warm, they just don't want to freeze; but I'm a bit more anal about the orchids.
Thanks - Nancy

[Ross]

In short - electric, OK to use indoors unvented. It doesn't yield any dangerous gases (that I have ever heard of) and we all use them in the bathroom, right OK, so why are unvented "gas-based" heaters bad indoors (ie. unvented)? Primarily due to efficiency of burning (or lack of). They give off CO (Carbon Monoxide) as well as ethylene byproducts that can cause problems with flowers. But CO is the primary bad guy. Not so much of a problem in a vented environment. For instance my daughter and her family use the common fuel-oil (kerosene) catalytic heaters for heating their screen porch in the winter. This porch is so vented that snow comes in when it snows. I have no problem being out there with those heaters. They work and they are "safe" under those vented conditions. Contrast that to a relatively clean burning propane unit (catalytic style, usually) in an environment relatively sealed against wind and outside air. Big difference. CO is deadly, invisible, and a real killer. Don't want to raise this message to the level of "Nightmare on 9th street" but I hope you are totally aware of the dangers of an unvented heater in a living space, or a potential living space. Electric heaters are the things of choice. Expensive to run (when they run) but totally safe (within reason.)