Suffering "Wild" orchid removal ethical or not?

[theloyalplum]

taking an ethics class - internet philosopher

You are, in ethical theory, mostly in the right. In this particular situation, it can be justified that removing the "wild" orchids is better for all the parties involved, and the fact that you did so legally helps your case. However, be sure not to use this rationale to justify other "wild" collecting in the future because there is a line that shouldn't be crossed, especially with orchids!

Hope you don't feel as guilty with that in mind! I read the comments above and I feel like the best thing to do in life is just to be nice, even if you feel like someone's attacking you (physically or not). There's everything to be gained from discussion and nothing from anger.

internet philosopher out

[Subrosa]

It is always unethical to remove something from the property of another without their permission. I learned that in kindergarten.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by Oclover

Also, I'm no longer on the other forum, that's why I haven't posted a reply there.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

For the record...no one asked you to leave nor did anyone tell you that you were no longer welcome over there. That's just not true so, please, don't feel like that.

[theloyalplum]

This is precisely why I said 'mostly'! Like most things in life, it depends on your perspective and how you look at it. If your ethical background insists that solely taking property without permission is a violation of moral standards, then the situation is likely to be unethical. However, if you think about the other actors/agents/stakeholders in this situation, it could be seen otherwise. Assuming that the OP has is telling the truth that the plants would be eventually destroyed by man or by nature, in this situation the plants get to survive another day and the enjoyment of the property owner is not impeded. His/Her intentions were benevolent, but it definitely does not outright excuse the taking of property without permission.

tl;dr: What it comes down to is : Do you believe that the storybook Robin Hood is a hero or a villian for his actions? Can the taking of property without explicit permission ever be justified? It's a very large grey area to explore.

[AnonYMouse]

It's really rude to continue arguments from other places.

The OP made a reference and asked for fresh perspectives. The issue should not be offense and defense of another forum.

Step back and think, would you allow an argument from here continued at the other forum?

[Orchid Whisperer]

To provide more perspective on the allegedly "suffering" orchids, at least one of the plants is (or was) in spike. Clearly, whatever shrub it was in, the plant had been growing there in place long enough to bloom (many years?), so likely not in too much danger of being chopped up during hedge trimming.

Orchids I've seen in the wild almost always look a bit rough. Or even a lot rough. Clearly they can put up with rough conditions and thrive enough to bloom and attempt to reproduce, as this plant did.

---------- Post added at 04:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 PM ----------

Originally Posted by AnonYMouse

It's really rude to continue arguments from other places.

The OP made a reference and asked for fresh perspectives. The issue should not be offense and defense of another forum.

Step back and think, would you allow an argument from here continued at the other forum?

AnonYMouse, the point is, the OP carried this argument over from the other forum. With a pretense of being the harmed/innocent party, I might add. I agree, she should have kept the discussion on the other forum; I wouldn't be posting this otherwise.

[rbarata]

It's really rude to continue arguments from other places.

The OP made a reference and asked for fresh perspectives. The issue should not be offense and defense of another forum.

Agree! Let's move on!!!

[Subrosa]

Originally Posted by theloyalplum

This is precisely why I said 'mostly'! Like most things in life, it depends on your perspective and how you look at it. If your ethical background insists that solely taking property without permission is a violation of moral standards, then the situation is likely to be unethical. However, if you think about the other actors/agents/stakeholders in this situation, it could be seen otherwise. Assuming that the OP has is telling the truth that the plants would be eventually destroyed by man or by nature, in this situation the plants get to survive another day and the enjoyment of the property owner is not impeded. His/Her intentions were benevolent, but it definitely does not outright excuse the taking of property without permission.

tl;dr: What it comes down to is : Do you believe that the storybook Robin Hood is a hero or a villian for his actions? Can the taking of property without explicit permission ever be justified? It's a very large grey area to explore.

Taking something from someone's property without permission is always wrong. Arguing that it isn't is the sole province of people who disagree in principle and/or action and wish to justify their beliefs and/or actions. Quite simply they are arguing why it's ok to steal. To paraphrase Mr Lincoln, those who think stealing is ok under certain circumstances need to be placed into those circumstances themselves.

---------- Post added at 05:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:45 PM ----------

It seems this subject comes up from time to time. People use various reasons in an attempt to justify their theft. It should be noted that this particular person realizes what they did was wrong. Now whether he/ she actually came to realize theft is wrong, or whether the admission of wrongdoing was simply in response to the outcry remains to be seen. At least this time the person didn't claim the rightful owner was mistreating the plant and then come here looking for advice on how to grow the plant they stole from someone who didn't know how to grow it.

[epiphyte78]

We have this saying... "out of the pot, into the fire". It means to escape a bad situation but end up in an even worse situation.

If this saying applies to the orchids you removed from the bush... then your actions were unethical.

Do I know if this saying applies to these orchids? Well... here are the two main considerations...

1. Green Thumb

I don't know how green your thumb is. When somebody has a "green thumb" it means that they are really good at growing plants. The less green your thumb is... the less ethical your actions were.

Even if you have a green thumb though... there is still the matter of reproduction.

2. Reproduction

Orchids don't exist to exist... they exist to reproduce. Orchid flowers aren't for your enjoyment... they are for making babies. How many babies would these rescue orchids have made if you had left them on the bush? How many babies will these orchids now make in your care? If these orchids that you rescued make less babies in your care than they would have made in the wild... then your actions were unethical.

Take a look at this photo. The Tolumnia is in a garden in the Dominican Republic. As you can see... the Tolumnia has lots of babies! I don't think the owner of this garden "rescued" the adult Tolumnia... but if he had... then the presence of all the babies is some fairly decent evidence that his actions were ethical.

What kind of bush was it that your rescue orchids were originally growing in? Do you know if this bush is their preferred phorophyte? If so, then I would recommend growing this same type of bush yourself and attaching the orchids to it. It's highly ethical to grow a wide variety of the different types of bushes and trees that orchids love to naturally grow on. Hopefully the native pollinators will find your garden. But if not, then it will be highly ethical for you to pollinate the orchids yourself. In either case, when pods develop... it's highly ethical for you to disseminate the seeds yourself rather than rely on the wind to do it.

In post #22 in this thread... I shared my technique for disseminating orchid seeds.

Just in case it's not clear... my ethics are of the consequentialist variety. The same is true of anybody who supports any amount of taxation.

[Subrosa]

Originally Posted by epiphyte78

We have this saying... "out of the pot, into the fire". It means to escape a bad situation but end up in an even worse situation.

If this saying applies to the orchids you removed from the bush... then your actions were unethical.

Do I know if this saying applies to these orchids? Well... here are the two main considerations...

1. Green Thumb

I don't know how green your thumb is. When somebody has a "green thumb" it means that they are really good at growing plants. The less green your thumb is... the less ethical your actions were.

Even if you have a green thumb though... there is still the matter of reproduction.

2. Reproduction

Orchids don't exist to exist... they exist to reproduce. Orchid flowers aren't for your enjoyment... they are for making babies. How many babies would these rescue orchids have made if you had left them on the bush? How many babies will these orchids now make in your care? If these orchids that you rescued make less babies in your care than they would have made in the wild... then your actions were unethical.

Take a look at this photo. The Tolumnia is in a garden in the Dominican Republic. As you can see... the Tolumnia has lots of babies! I don't think the owner of this garden "rescued" the adult Tolumnia... but if he had... then the presence of all the babies is some fairly decent evidence that his actions were ethical.

What kind of bush was it that your rescue orchids were originally growing in? Do you know if this bush is their preferred phorophyte? If so, then I would recommend growing this same type of bush yourself and attaching the orchids to it. It's highly ethical to grow a wide variety of the different types of bushes and trees that orchids love to naturally grow on. Hopefully the native pollinators will find your garden. But if not, then it will be highly ethical for you to pollinate the orchids yourself. In either case, when pods develop... it's highly ethical for you to disseminate the seeds yourself rather than rely on the wind to do it.

In post #22 in this thread... I shared my technique for disseminating orchid seeds.

Just in case it's not clear... my ethics are of the consequentialist variety. The same is true of anybody who supports any amount of taxation.

You really are attempting to seriously argue that the growing abilities of a plant thief affect the level of their guilt. You know, as bewildering as these threads are, with the way they put peoples' poor upbringings on voluntary public display I must admit that each time the subject comes up I learn something new. I learn new people who cannot be trusted to be honest and will never have permission to be on my property.