Vappodes lithicola and Goodaleara (?) - Page 2 - Orchid Board

Andrew · #11 02-09-2011, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteRabbit

hmm - varying info on the genus and species name - this is the bigibbum ssp/var compactum which I have seen now as either Den lithicola or Vappodes lithicola

The genus Dendrobium, as Kew currently accepts it, has no scientific merit. You either have to lump a bunch of genera like Cadetia and Flickingeria in with it or split it up considerably to make it monophyletic. I believe there are currently moves to lump Dendrobium and the other Kew-accepted genera contained within it back together. However, around 10 years ago Jones and Clements chose to split the genus. There is some merit in this as Kew has accepted the splitting up of genera that were more closely related a lot of the sections of Dendrobium. CHAH, which acts as a representative body for the various herbaria in Australia currently accepts the split so you will see a lot Australian sources refering to this species as Vappodes lithocola. However, Kew does not accept the splitting of Dendrobium or Dendrobium bigibbum. As you're not in Australia, I'd label it Dendrobium bigibbum var compactum and not worry too much about what the Australians are doing until Kew, the RHS or the AOS takes a different view.

camille1585 · #12 02-09-2011, 05:12 AM

How did the australians go about making the split? Is it just another trend, or are they basing it on genetics and molecular markers like is being done in the Catt world?

silken · #13 02-09-2011, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camille1585

Awesome, that one is so gorgeous! Did the grower confirm that the particular plant that you will be getting will indeed have the 'splash' markings? The trouble with this Den is that even among mericlones the splash is not guaranteed. You may end up with a plain purple plant.

I had heard from HawaiianSunshine on this site that you should buy it in bloom for that reason. I asked Ching Hua and they said they guarantee the 'splash' in the flower. I think they are a very large grower and exporter and I'll have to take my chance unless some are in bloom when I get to the show. Not sure what I can do about their guarantee if it comes out all purple! But it will still be pretty. I really do want the splash tho.

camille1585 · #14 02-09-2011, 10:19 AM

Me too, I really want that orchid, but it seems to be non existant in Europe. What's the name of the grower? I can keep an eye out in case they come to Europe one day. Maybe you could ask them at the show?

silken · #15 02-09-2011, 11:40 AM

Sorry WhiteRabbit, not trying to hijack your thread. Your lovely blooms put us in want of more!

camille1585, the grower in Taiwan is Chin Hua Orchids: Product Line

I will try and remember to ask them if they go to Europe and get back to you. You would think if they come to Canada, that they would go to Europe too. They are very good at responding to e-mails also.

camille1585 · #16 02-09-2011, 11:47 AM

Thanks for the website link, they have their show schedule there and they're going to 2 shows in Europe!!

So glad you brought this up, I actually have a chance at getting this Den.

Andrew · #17 02-09-2011, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camille1585

How did the australians go about making the split? Is it just another trend, or are they basing it on genetics and molecular markers like is being done in the Catt world?

The splits were based on phylogenetic studies. As with all of these things, there was a rush to publish and some of the splits aren't standing up to scrutiny but that's science... or as close to science as taxonomy can pretend to be.

WhiteRabbit · #18 02-09-2011, 08:26 PM

Has the ssp/var compactum been split off as a distinct species? I have seen it identified as Dendrobium lithicola ...

Andrew · #19 02-09-2011, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteRabbit

Has the ssp/var compactum been split off as a distinct species? I have seen it identified as Dendrobium lithicola ...

Jones and Clements raised the Dendrobium bigibbum varieties to separate species in 1989. Kew didn't accept this split. Technically, according to Kew's website, Kew doesn't actually accept any subspecies, varieties or forms of bigibbum as valid. It's all just bigibbum.

Personally, regardless of what CHAH, Kew or the Junior Field Nats of Timbuktu say, I'd be labelling it as Dendrobium bigibbum var compactum. It may not be technically correct by anyone's standards but everyone you're likely to speak to will immediately know what plant you're talking about (isn't that the point?).

WhiteRabbit · #20 02-09-2011, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Jones and Clements raised the Dendrobium bigibbum varieties to separate species in 1989. Kew didn't accept this split. Technically, according to Kew's website, Kew doesn't actually accept any subspecies, varieties or forms of bigibbum as valid. It's all just bigibbum.

Personally, regardless of what CHAH, Kew or the Junior Field Nats of Timbuktu say, I'd be labelling it as Dendrobium bigibbum var compactum. It may not be technically correct by anyone's standards but everyone you're likely to speak to will immediately know what plant you're talking about (isn't that the point?).

thanks for clarifying - yes, of course it is best that people know which plant is being discussed, just something I was curious about. Of course with all the name changes happening I frequently am clueless about what plant is being discussed lol