Insane prices

[jkofferdahl]

mvJohn's thread, "worth paying such price" got me thinking two different directions. In fact, I wondered if he was going the second, but his question went instead the first direction, namely were the plants he was considering being offered at a fair price. The fair price of an orchid is a pretty fluid thing. I grow my 100+ orchids as a rank amateur with the intention of keeping them alive, getting them to bloom, and taking their pictures. For my purposes, a generic Phal species (as an example) is just as good as a highly crossed, selected, special plant of the same species but which sells for ten times the generic plant. However, others have differing interests and so to them the more expensive plant better fits theirs.

The other direction the question took me was simply nutty prices. We've seen some on eBay and other places, though sometimes there's a reason for the extraordinary price. Way back in the early 1980's I remember reading an article, I believe in National Geographic, about an orchid expedition into a South American jungle. As I recall, they hoped to locate a species some thought was extinct, both to prove it wasn't and also if it wasn't to collect specimens to preserve the species. They found it and returned with several plants. The guy who went after them got to keep one, and The Smithsonian (I think) got a couple. They sold two larger specimens for $20,000 each, and a third, smaller one for $10K. Now in a case like this I can understand the absurd price (those were 1980 dollars, not 2017 dollars), but I admit questioning some plant prices I see being asked.

[MrHappyRotter]

This is all very subjective, obviously. Different people will have differing opinions and thresholds & criteria for what qualifies as ridiculous.

Scarcity (or perceived scarcity) is a major contributing factor to pricing of almost everything you see for sale. A newly discovered species or an exceptionally high quality clone can be very valuable for commercial growers. They can take those plants and clone them or use them for breeding and sell the progeny for many times over the amount of money they paid for them. Plus, the notoriety of owning and breeding these plants helps drive sales for the rest of their inventory. So even if the people who buy them do it because they just like owning rare and expensive things, I don't consider the prices to be insane. There's real financial motivation supporting those numbers.

For me insane pricing is when you see a vendor over-estimate the value of their plants by several times or more for seemingly no good reason. Ebay is where I see it the most. Things like $400 for a 4 growth plant of a not too difficult to find species or hybrid that would normally sell for $20 - $30 for a blooming sized seedling. Or, plants that are sickly looking or have signs of disease, but the prices are almost double what you can expect pay for a robust and healthy plant from an established and more reputable vendor. You could buy a $20 - $30 dollar seedling, and in 12 months grow it out to the size of the $400 plant. And why would anybody buy a sick, common plant, unless it was pretty much free? Those are the ones that I always think are insane.

[AnonYMouse]

Supply, demand and buyer beware.

[Ray]

John, for what it's worth, as far as I know, the most expensive plant ever offered was a blue Phalaenopsis violacea that had been wild collected back in the late-70's/early-80's time frame. $35,000 was the asking price - about $100,000 in today's money!

Seems exorbitant, and I have no idea what was actually paid for it, but in retrospect, it was probably a good deal as 1) no more blue violaceas have ever been discovered, and 2) every blue one out there has that plant in its lineage.

What an investment!

[jkofferdahl]

Originally Posted by Ray

John, for what it's worth, as far as I know, the most expensive plant ever offered was a blue Phalaenopsis violacea that had been wild collected back in the late-70's/early-80's time frame. $35,000 was the asking price - about $100,000 in today's money!

Seems exorbitant, and I have no idea what was actually paid for it, but in retrospect, it was probably a good deal as 1) no more blue violaceas have ever been discovered, and 2) every blue one out there has that plant in its lineage.

What an investment!

Ray, I have no doubt that those plants collected in my story were also of equal - or near-equal - value to breeders. I specifically remember the prices. I guess my point, which I sort of lost, is that for most of us it's the $15 plant that's sufficient.

I'll liken it, in a way, to the windowsill grower (again myself) who rushes out to buy the $250 Phalaenopsis because it's a clone of an plant which received an FCC. Such a plant has no place in an average collection if for no other reason that it's simply not going to grow, thrive, and bloom well enough on our windowsill to ever repeat the display which garnered the plant such an award. While I work really hard to give my plants everything they need, I'm still growing inside a home and simply can't provide the conditions which will allow a plant to grow, thrive, and bloom into an FCC-award-level plant.

Your blue violacea is a great and valuable plant for a grower who can use the plant in breeding and so pass the blue color on to new and exciting hybrids, and those rare, jungle-collected plants of mine keep the species going and also enter breeding. I'd love either plant on my windowsill but they have about as much place there as does a fish.

[estación seca]

Originally Posted by jkofferdahl

...a clone of a plant which received an FCC. Such a plant has no place in an average collection if for no other reason that it's simply not going to grow, thrive, and bloom well enough on our windowsill to ever repeat the display which garnered the plant such an award.

I think that's being overly pessimistic. People have differing growing conditions all over the world, and different plants grow really well in different areas. People in Tucson and Phoenix get awards on all sorts of orchids. These people have ordinary greenhouses and growing areas, not magic ones.

Also, with limited space, it can be nice to get clones of plants that are known for having great flowers, instead of a seedling that might not make such a great flower.

[jkofferdahl]

Originally Posted by estación seca

I think that's being overly pessimistic. People have differing growing conditions all over the world, and different plants grow really well in different areas. People in Tucson and Phoenix get awards on all sorts of orchids. These people have ordinary greenhouses and growing areas, not magic ones.

Also, with limited space, it can be nice to get clones of plants that are known for having great flowers, instead of a seedling that might not make such a great flower.

Yeah, I tend to be somewhat cynical in my philosophy. But there's a difference between a greenhouse in Tucson and a windowsill in Tucson. My standpoint is more that of a windowsill grower. I'll spend $35 for Phal. stuartiana "Star Wars" rather than $15 for generic P stuartiana, but I just don't believe that my growing conditions justify the more expensive plant.

[pipsxlch]

I agree with what AnonYmouse and MrHappyRotter said, but it's also prices are subjective. We say 'crazy', most likely it's ignorant and impulsive, but someone pays that $400 somewhere- and maybe in large part because that $400 is less to them than $40 or even $14 is to most of us.

If you want to spend the extra $$$ on a clone or division of an awarded plant and understand that YMMV, do what makes you happy. It may still be a nicer plant for you than the average of its species/grex would have been in your conditions. The only time it's sad is in a situation like Ray had (or your jungle Catts), if that violacea had ended up dying in the collection of a well-heeled dilettante without ever being cloned/divided/bred from.
Okay, and maybe for you if you're the person who's been hoodwinked. Especially if you end up thinking all orchid people/vendors are scam artists. (thinking ES's example of vendors who swear you can grow a plant you can't- at least easily- to make a sale)

[MattWoelfsen]

I am going to interject my Neofinetia hat...I recently contemplated buying a Neofinetia falcata 'Himeyako' it is a lovely and unique bean leaf. It was priced over half a thousand dollars. I actually thought long and hard trying to rationalize purchasing this plant. But I have other needs, like pay bills!

Prices removed as it is crass to talk about money.

[bil]

It all comes down to one question. "What's it worth to you?"

I remember reading about a carpet making firm who, back in the day took their most experienced man aside, gave him a large amount of money, I mean seriously large, and sent him off to India to buy samples of unique carpet that they could study and copy.

He blew the entire budget on a single piece of carpet about a foot long and six inches wide, and could only afford it by combining with another buyer, so each bought and took away half of the specimen.

His firm, after getting over the shock, agreed that he had got a bargain, so exquisite was the sample.