Big box stores, Y U NO put scientific names on your plants??

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by rosemadder

Whoa. Really? Huh. I mean... the supplier had BETTER know what it is that they are growing and selling, so at some point the ID of the plants is definitely known and tracked, I would think?

The supplier does know the name of their plants. The generic label means they don't have to print different labels for for different batches of hybrids and don't waste labels when they change lines.

Originally Posted by rosemadder

I'm curious when those tags come off (and why) and when the generic ones go on. Hm.

The labels aren't replaced with generic ones. The plants are grown in batches on the same bench and the batches are labelled with the ID.

Originally Posted by rosemadder

Okay, THAT is a little weird. I mean I guess it makes sense that there'd be something in place to protect the store in case the supplier screws up and sends diseased plants, but to have blanket immunity for killing them off any which way is... odd. I guess the suppliers just assume that the stores have enough interest in selling them that they'll at least try not to screw up ALL of them, but... still.

The box store chains give the suppliers a much larger market than they would be able to achieve selling to individual, independent stores. The flipside to this is that this gives the box stores a lot of bargaining power over the suppliers so they can force the suppliers to sell at a tighter profit margin and take greater liability for the quality of the stock.

[katrina]

I see these sort of topics pop up from time to time and it's been a topic of discussion for years...and years...and years. If it bothers you that much...why do you continue to look at their plants? The complaining about it has been going on for longer than I've been growing orchids and it never changes anything so why aggravate yourself? Why not simply stop shopping for plants in such places?

The big box stores are in business to make money...they are general stores for a variety of items but they are not nurseries and plants are not their main money maker. They offer them because people will pick up plants from time to time and most of those people do not care what the scientific name. THey only want to know it will grow in their homes...and those generic tags give them all the info they need to keep the generic houseplants alive. Hell, some people only want the "green" until they are bored w/it so they really don't even care if it lasts long term. I know people who buy plants for their homes as part of the decor and they switch them out every few months. Meaning, if it isn't already dead...they throw it in the trash because they are bored. Others don't care about the names...they just want something cool or pretty and the basic info for growing is more than satisfactory.

If you're interested in all that other info (as I am so I understand the desire to find the info)...then buy only from places that can provide the info. Buy not from the big box stores but order/buy from growers that can provide you w/the info you want. Doesn't it make more sense to do that rather than to complain about something you aren't going to change?

[AnonYMouse]

I wonder if its not a licensing/trademark/copywrite/patent issue. If a seller uses a name, they have to pay royalties?

[rosemadder]

Originally Posted by Discus

I've often thought that non-specialist stores intentionally dumb down species names as they think that such information is off-putting to the majority of their clients. Even in fish shops, you'll see cardinal tetras rather than Paracheirodon axelrodi.

"Cardinal tetra" is okay, though, a pretty specific common name. It's much better than, say, "Tetra", or "Fishie".

My mom is a botanist, so I guess I got used to the idea of scientific names as a little kid.

I would really like to visit a real local nursery. I'm not sure how the appointment thing works. Half Moon Bay Orchids told me today they only let people in if they've got a resale license.

Will I just be annoying these places if I just want to go in and stare at things for a while?

Originally Posted by RosieC

Rose, if you have no local stores that can supply what you are looking for can you order online?

Yeah, I've already ordered 3 off the Internet and plan on more soon. Thing is I'm mainly looking for fragrance, and as a beginner I'm not familiar with very many yet. It's hard to say which ones I'd like and which I won't without meeting them in person.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by rosemadder

I would really like to visit a real local nursery. I'm not sure how the appointment thing works. Half Moon Bay Orchids told me today they only let people in if they've got a resale license.

Regarding nurseries that are open by appointment, it's usually a case of ringing up and making sure someone will be available to show you around. For nurseries that sell primarily by mail-order or are closed during the quieter parts of the year, they're usually happy to organise a time for you to drop in.

However, the nursery you're talking about sounds like a wholesaler, rather than a retail/mail-order nursery. They're probably not interested in selling direct to the public but should be able to tell you who they distribute their stock through.

Originally Posted by rosemadder

Will I just be annoying these places if I just want to go in and stare at things for a while?

For appointment only nurseries, I don't feel it's appropriate to go to make an appointment just to look around. I pretty much treat visits to those nurseries the same as I would if I was ordering with them via mail order with the bonus that I get to pick my own order, asses the quality and save on shipping.

I'm not in the US so I don't know which of your local nurseries are worth buying from. You'd be better off either asking on the forum for a list of good orchid nurseries in your area or getting in contact with the local orchid society and seeing if they can point you in the right direction.

[NYCorchidman]

I don't understand how it is that it costs more money to put exact full names than to put a generic name.

By the way, I see those generic names saying "house plants" more and more. annoying.

However, I still see quite many that still carry their correct names. well, at least at a farmer's market where plants I believe are coming directly from the growers.

I don't have any pictures, but it wold have the small picture on top of the plastic label with say, Dahlia "Tropic Dancer" Full Sun 45" Annual
and more specific care information on the back.

[Discus]

Originally Posted by rosemadder

Will I just be annoying these places if I just want to go in and stare at things for a while?

Try Golden Gate Orchids They have som Lycaste aromatica in stock, which will fit the bill for fragrance

You might also like to order Frowine's book "Fragrant Orchids". Amazon.com: Fragrant Orchids: A Guide to Selecting, Growing, and Enjoying (9780881927399): Steven A. Frowine: Books


---------- Post added at 09:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:11 AM ----------

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

I don't understand how it is that it costs more money to put exact full names than to put a generic name.

If you professionally print a label, each variety or species needs an independent print run, design etc as well as warehousing for the inventory, which obviously costs more.
If you'd hand labelling plants, that takes time, and costs more.

That said, if you're using a thermoelectric printer, it doesn't cost that much to adjust the name on the label and print out 60 (or whatever you're selling) copies and stick them on the pot...

That said, if you save a few pennies here and there, but sell tens of thousands, you're looking a substantial differences in costs/profit, hence, together with people mostly not caring, the reason for increasingly useless labelling.

I suspect the people that drive this sort of useless labelling (the don't-care-what-it-is crowd) are the same people that need "Warning- contents may be hot" on coffee, "Does not enable user to fly" on superman costumes and "do not iron clothes on body". Take the warning labels off EVERYTHING and the problem will fix itself.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

I don't understand how it is that it costs more money to put exact full names than to put a generic name.

They can print up a large batch of a single type of label for less than several smaller batches. There's less wasted labels when there's a shortfall in the number of plants they produce, the number of plants in the flask/plug tray don't match the printers batch size or when they decide to replace the lines they're selling. They also only have to design the label once.

In addition to the cost issues, some nurseries don't label their plants with the real name in order to protect the intellectual property of their breeding lines.

[Discus]

Oh, also in your quest for orchids in San Francisco, I think your local orchid society will be San Francisco Orchid Society in general, it's worth visiting a meeting at least once, if not immediately joining. Others in the area include: Bay Area Orchid Societies

And for other stores, how could I forget Orchid Map™ | Locator: Orchids

You'll probably enjoy this SF plant geek's blog too Plantgasm - I love plants too much.

[Stray59]

Again, to those of you who don't understand that printing the label for individuals cost a little more (and I mean a little - again, fractions of a cent), just go to the Identification section and search for NoId posts about this exact thing.
The supplier of Trader Joe's has a website (Products Orchids main page - Matsui Nursery, Inc.) and they don't even name their orchids on the site - with exception to some oncidiums - names are of no consequence because their biggest buyers are NOT collectors, but the average shopper that goes "ohhh - pretty AND cheap!" One of TJ's buyers was a friend to a board member and he told them that the reason for NoID is a profit margin issue. That, yes it does cost more to ID each correctly and that they just can't win a contract with even a slight increase in price. This was posted in previous discussions on this matter, of which there have been MANY.
I was told the "store doesn't pay for lost orchids" by a local grower who tried to sell to big box stores - they refused to outright pay him for the plants, instead wanted to sell on commision and any lost plants he would have to eat. Now I can't speak to other countries, as I see others have weighed in on this that are not from the US, but I can say that in the US - this is the reason that is given. He refused to play along and sells out of his own greenhouse (Hilltop orchids, Cloverdale, Indiana - check the vendor section for photos I have posted of his inventory)
It just costs too much for these stores to outright purchase and then maintain good, healthy inventory and get the profit margin they demand.
Again, check the Identification section - this issue has been discussed and discussed and discussed - ad nauseum.
So if you want inexpensive plants - big box is the way to go, but you pay the price of NoID and poor care. If you want quality plants, with good ID's and good care - you have to go to a nursery / greenhouse to get this.
Rosemadder - I understand your frustration, as I wanted to be a botanist - but, you have too high of an expectation from a store that does not sell ONLY plants - again, when they sell plants, AND lumber, wiring, lights, etc. they probably are not "expert" in any one field. I don't like it, but I accept it. If your mother was in Marketing, rather than Botany, then you would probably understand the overall marketing strategy that is employed; and yes, a fraction of a cent adds up over time with HUGE quantities.
I have several NoID's because I liked the look, the plants were healthy (obviously just received in the store) and they were CHEAP. But, the sacrifice I made was an ID. I understand that and it doesn't infuriate me now (although it can be frustrating, understandably). This is the cost of inexpensive orchids. Lowes was carrying bagged Sun Bulb Company Orchid stock; they were generically bagged with a "Purple Cattleya" or "Yellow Oncidium" picture tag, BUT they also had the exact scientific name in the pot and I was able to get some really nice ID'ed stock inexpensively (ranging between $7.00 and $13.00 [US] each). I notice that they have not gotten any stock in this year (at least not in our area) and I fear that Sun Bulb lost the contract or decided it was too expensive to sell through these stores. I asked about whether they were going to get any in and the plant manager said he did not know as this all comes from corporate and if the displays are not listed on an order sheet (sent from corporate) they have no way of ordering them.
Sorry guys - wasn't trying to be callous or harsh - but these are the facts of the matter.
Steve